This month on FSCast:
� David Sloan, Vispero's chief accessibility officer, tells us all about Title II and how to get ready for it. Elizabeth Whitaker previews our plans for CSUN, as well as our upcoming training schedule.
� And we hear part two of our interview with Olga Esp�nola, where she discusses some of the things that really matter.
OLEG SHEVKUN:
So, hello and welcome to FSCast episode 267, and it's now the end of February 2026, and that means CSUN is right around the corner. And who else is there to talk to us about CSUN than Elizabeth Whitaker. So, Elizabeth, hey, and welcome again.
ELIZABETH WHITAKER:
Hi, Oleg and thank you. And hi, everyone.
OLEG:
Are you packing?
ELIZABETH:
Not yet, but I will be soon.
OLEG:
So, what are the dates for a CSUN this year?
ELIZABETH:
CSUN is going to take place the week of March 9th through the 13th, so there's a lot going on and we are very, very excited about it.
OLEG:
Here at Vispero, we're still finalizing the plans, but it's my understanding that there will be our booth and there will be presentations. Is that pretty much correct?
ELIZABETH:
Yes, absolutely. So, there will be several of us working the booth. Rachel Buchanan and I are among those who will be there. So, please come by and see us with your questions. If you want to see things demonstrated, if you have questions or feedback, or you just want to come by and say, "Hi," please come by our booth.
OLEG:
Now, I'm in an awkward situation right now, and so are you, Elizabeth, because there is something planned for that CSUN, for one of the presentations, that we're not sure at this time whether we can disclose. So, it's probably going to be a good idea to keep suspense running and just tell people, "Hey, if you're at CSUN, come and check it out."
ELIZABETH:
Absolutely. I will say this, that there will be a presentation about it, and I will be a part of that presentation along with Shaun Ryan.
OLEG:
That would be worthwhile alone, just hearing you present. I'd love to hear that.
ELIZABETH:
Yeah, and as far as presentations, and where things are going to be, and what time things are going to take place, we will be providing more information about that as CSUN gets closer. So, we'll let you all know.
OLEG:
Now, for something that we do have clarity on, and that's our training schedule. What do we have in March?
ELIZABETH:
We have two webinars as we typically do. So, on March 5th, we are going to talk about how to use Copilot within the Microsoft 365 applications, and this is extremely exciting. We've been waiting to do this one. We know a lot of people have been asking for it, so we're going to break it down and show you how to access Copilot within Word, within Excel, also within Outlook. So, that's going to take place March the 5th, that's a Thursday at noon Eastern.
OLEG:
Some of our listeners are going to ask the question immediately, do I have to purchase anything to access Copilot? Because in the past, we were talking about something that's available for free. How about Copilot in Microsoft Office apps?
ELIZABETH:
Copilot is available with your 365 subscription. So, you might have it available through your work or school if they're turning that on for you, or you might have it available in your personal subscription as well. So, if you have a 365 subscription, you should have Copilot.
OLEG:
Then, you might have it even if you don't knowit?
ELIZABETH:
Correct, yes. And we're going to show you how to find out, but you can actually go to your Home tab and you can locate it there. You can also open Microsoft Word, and, if it tells you you can start interacting with Copilot by pressing Alt I, then you�ve got it.
OLEG:
Okay, so that's the webinar on March 5th. And is there another one?
ELIZABETH:
There is. We also have our software webinar, which usually takes place the third Thursday of the month, but because of CSUN we're actually moving it to the fourth Thursday, which is March 26th at noon Eastern. And we are going to talk about yet another Microsoft product. We're going to be talking about the calendar in the new Outlook. We get a lot of questions about this. "How do I navigate my calendar?", "How do I schedule appointments?", "How do I join meetings and events?, how do I share my calendar?" All kinds of things. So, we're going to be covering all that on March 26th at noon Eastern.
OLEG:
Well, that's going to be a good one because I'm thinking even of myself, I'm not that comfortable with that new calendar, and I assume many of our listeners are in a similar situation.
So, Elizabeth, that was all great to hear, and I won't hold you any longer. You do need to get ready and not just to pack, but to get ready to present at CSUN.
Well, after a lengthy break, our JAWS Power Tip of the Month section is back, and today's Power Tip comes from Joshua Cross.
Do you know those pesky files, which may combine text and images and there may be even some text within images, and you want to be able to access those? If you're learning math or science or in many other areas, you do come across those files. So, Joshua comes up with a solution that's sort of counterintuitive, but it works.
We normally think of PDF files as difficult to access, especially if all those files contain are images. However, PDF could be used as an intermediary format, and here's what I mean. When you get a document that contains both texts and images and you would like to make that accessible, one way to do it is: no matter which format that document is in, simply convert this to PDF. You can do this by printing to PDF, and there's a PDF printer that's installed by Windows, and there are other utilities and software that'll do this. So basically, you open that file in whatever application created that and make a PDF out of it, without even taking care that this PDF should contain a text layer, that's not important for us right now.
Then in Windows Explorer, you focus on that file, and if you're using JAWS, you press INSERT+SPACE O, followed by F. What that will do is it'll OCR that PDF file and show the results in a viewer window, so it'll recognize the text in the file, including the text in graphics.
Of course, as always with OCR, your mileage may vary. Some files may be recognized really well. Others may have issues. However, as the result of this process, you do have a text to work with, and you can press Ctrl A to select the text, copy it to clipboard, and paste it to an application of your choice.
Another way to use PDF as an intermediary format is to open that file in Chrome, and Chrome does have a built-in OCR function, so you will be navigating that file as you would be navigating any web page.
In some cases, it makes sense to try several approaches, compare the results and choose whatever works best. Of course, we all have our ways of working with images and documents containing images, so this one may be yet another tool in your toolbox.
As a way of saying thank you to Joshua Cross for contributing this power tip, we'll extend his JAWS license by another year. And, if you would like to contribute your power tip, write to [email protected].
Are you ready for Title II? That question is prominently asked on our vispero.com website.
To find out more about what Title II is and how you can get ready, I'm joined here by David Sloan, chief accessibility officer here at Vispero. Hello, David and welcome to FSCast.
DAVID SLOAN:
Hi Oleg, it's great to be here. Thanks for inviting me on.
OLEG:
Now, just out of curiosity, Dave, where are you located?
DAVID:
So, I'm in Boston. I've been here for three years, but I'm originally from Scotland, growing up on the East Coast and spent a lot of my working life in Fife before moving over here three years ago. Trying not to lose my accent too much.
OLEG:
And how long have you been with Vispero, or probably TPGi, before that?
DAVID:
That's right, yes. I joined TPG, as they were originally known in 2013, so I'm coming up for my 13th anniversary. I started off as a user experience consultant, helping with our UX services, usability testing with people with disabilities, design reviews, all the stuff that digital product teams should be doing after they've had an accessibility audit to help build products that people can use. And it's been great fun working in those services, and then seeing the company evolve. Obviously, TPG was acquired in 2017, and we became a sister company of Freedom Scientific and others at Vispero, and continuing to play a role in delivering our accessibility services, along with the chief accessibility officer role, keeps me pretty busy.
OLEG:
What does chief accessibility officer do at Vispero?
DAVID:
It's a little different to most chief accessibility officer roles, in that I don't really need to advocate for accessibility too much in a company that's focused on accessibility, whether it's building assistive technology software or hardware or providing digital accessibility services. But I am there to support different parts of the business, and that includes things like supporting our website development. That's part of my role. I support our service delivery team. I manage one of our teams that specialize in JavaScripting services. I do some speaking. I go on podcasts. And generally, just help make sure that we are thinking about accessibility in everything that we say and do.
And keep focused on what's happening in the world of digital accessibility, including new legislation or new details on existing legislation, which is I think what we're going to talk a little bit more about on this conversation.
OLEG:
We'll talk about this in a couple of minutes. But now that you've mentioned podcasting: for most of our listeners, FSCast is the official podcast of Freedom Scientific, or Vispero. And that's correct, but that's not the only one. You produced another podcast that could be of interest to some of our listeners. Tell us more about that.
DAVID:
Yeah, so I present The State of Accessibility. I wish I could say I produced, but other people do all the hard work of recording, and getting it online, and The State of Accessibility was set up by Mark Miller, former coworker, really looking at digital accessibility, new technologies. We've talked about AI several times, which is probably not surprising. The impact on how digital resources are built, whether it's coding, or content creation, or testing other things that we just feel might be of interest to digital accessibility professionals.
OLEG:
Well, that's pretty cool. And now, let's move on to Title II, and I used to think that Title II is part of ADA, Americans with Disabilities Act, which was passed way back in 1990. If so, then, what's all this buzz about right now in 2026?
DAVID:
So, the Americans with Disabilities Act, the ADA, was passed into law, as you say, in 1990 with five titles. Title I covers employment, Title II covers state and local government, public entities. Title III covers places of public accommodation. There are a couple of other titles that provide additional requirements that are maybe less relevant to digital accessibility or at least to the conversation we are having today. The challenge was that ADA was passed into law in 1990, way back when the web was in its infancy, and digital activity was far less prevalent than it is now. We always had a problem with the ADA, in that �it was very much focused on the physical world. But that changed recently when we got some more clarity on how it applies in the digital world.
In 2024, the Department of Justice published regulations specifically for ADA Title II. So, those regulations don't appear in the other titles that I mentioned, but the fact that they appear anywhere is something that is of great significance. So finally, the ADA has some language that says, "This is what you need to do to be conformant when you're providing a website or other digital resource." So, that's exciting and that's why there's so much conversation about it going on at the moment.
OLEG:
Now, I understand there's also a deadline looming.
DAVID:
One of the various ways that they tried to write the rule, in a way that made it more achievable, was to separate out the deadlines for compliance based on the size of the covered organization. So, by April 26th, 2027, smaller state and local government entities, that means those serving less �than 50,000 people, and also special district governments, things like public utilities and other organizations that fall under that definition of special districts, they have longer to meet the requirements, but for state and local government entities with populations of 50,000 or more, the deadline is April 24th, 2026. After that point, if somebody finds a digital resource, and one of the things that we can also clarify is, "What do I mean by digital resources covered by the rules?"
So, we're talking about web pages including embedded audio and video, digital documents, Word, PowerPoint, PDF, that kind of thing, that are available through the web and mobile apps. And all of these are used to provide program services and activities by public authorities. If somebody finds one of those digital resources and it doesn't meet the technical accessibility requirements, then that could be a case that that resource is in breach of the ADA and there could be a case for legal action. There are some exceptions. So, the rule includes certain classes of digital resources that would be exempt, such as archived web content. That's content that pre-existed the deadline and is clearly identified as archived.
It's not currently in active use, in terms of providing program services or activities. Same with pre-existing conventional electronic documents, content posted by a third party that wasn't engaged by a public entity. Maybe a comment on a news item just placed there by a member of the public rather than at the request of or paid for by the public entity. Anything that's individualized or password-protected is a part of the exceptions. And any pre-existing social media content that was posted by the public entity. Thus, �pre-existing� is a term that comes up a lot. So, after the date, anything that you produce, you're going to have to make sure complies. Anything that was already produced before the applicable deadline may be exempted, at least from the rule, but not from the overarching ADA.
I think this is quite important to stress, that the rule provides more technical clarity and accessibility for covered digital resources, but the overarching ADA Title II still applies. So, if somebody said, "I need access to this document that might fall into the exception rule, you're still going to have to react." You can't just say, "Oh, that's exempted. We don't have to worry about that." It's still covered by the overarching ADA, even if not the specific digital rules.
OLEG:
Am I correct in assuming that it does not apply to private entities or private companies? We're talking about state level, we're talking about public information.
DAVID:
Private entities �still have obligations under Title III if they provide places of public accommodation, and that's a whole other conversation about how courts are interpreting what that means. Some courts clearly say, "Well, a website, an e-commerce website definitely falls under that." And other courts might say, "Well, it'll only apply if this organization also has a bricks and mortar store." But what is clear is that the Title II digital accessibility rules apply to any digital resource provided by a state or local government public entity in the process of providing program services and activities, whether or not they produced it or they procured it from a vendor.
So, if you are a private company, and you provide a web application that allows somebody to pay for parking, maybe you've got a mobile phone app that allows you to pay for parking, or voting or other activities, you want to make sure that that product that you produce and sell to public state and local government entities �also meets those accessibility requirements. Otherwise, your public entity customers might decide, "We can't purchase this because it would put us in breach of our obligations." That's where the Title II rule has a direct impact on the private sector if they want to continue doing business with public entities.
OLEG:
Where do hardware devices come into play here? For example, does a kiosk have to be accessible if it's managed by a state public entity?
DAVID:
Let's say a kiosk has a web-based user interface. I mean, as a user, you might not know. It's whatever's showing on the screen, but the fact that the rule exists makes it a good reference for other information communication technologies as a measure of accessibility, even if it's not explicitly stated. I feel that the Department of Justice, at the time of writing the rule, expected to be writing a separate rule for kiosk and self-service terminal accessibility, and that rulemaking process stopped, so there was going to be something else that provided more clarity. We don't have that at the minute, but in terms of software accessibility for a device like a kiosk or self-service terminal, the fact that there are technical accessibility requirements that apply to other digital resources under Title II, somebody could reasonably say, "Well, this kiosk user interface doesn't meet these requirements, so therefore, I can make a good case that it's unlawfully inaccessible."
OLEG:
You mentioned the state level several times. So, the federal organizations are exempt from this, or is that a different part of ADA?
DAVID:
Federal accessibility is generally covered by the Rehabilitation Act rather than the ADA. So, any federal agency is subject to Section 504 or Section 508, depending on the agency. The ironic thing for Section 508 is, that its requirements are older and less stringent than the ADA Title II requirements. So, we've got some inconsistency there. And then, the ADA explicitly says that if a state or local government entity is subject to state or local law, then that state or local law takes precedence if it is more stringent than the ADA requirements. So, the ADA is not intended to water down or reduce the requirements of a state or local government. So, depending on which state you operate in, there may be additional local laws that require you to do more. But generally, the goal in accessibility standards is, as far as possible harmonization, to make it as easy as possible for anyone who's building digital resources to understand what they need to do, and to be confident that what they do is acceptable all around the US, and ideally, all around the world. And we're trying to head towards that direction, but there are definitely little wrinkles and inconsistencies at the moment that can make it challenging for vendors especially.
OLEG:
What is meant by either non-visual accessibility for blind users or accessibility for low-vision users. Is that conformance to WCAG? Is that something else? And accessibility versus usability, and is that distinction covered at all? So, what has to be available? What has to exist in a digital resource?
DAVID:
The main thing about the rule is, it introduced a technical requirement, a definition of accessibility, which is conformance with the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines, WCAG 2.1 to Level AA standard. That's the specific technical standard that was included in the rule. And listeners who are familiar with web accessibility will know that that's not the latest version of WCAG. And it's true. We're one level below the current version of WCAG. One of the things you have to give the Department of Justice credit is that they're very transparent with their decision-making process. So, they'll issue Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, a draft of the rule and invite public comment. And probably many people listening to this may well have contributed to feedback on the rule. And the Department of Justice reviews the feedback. And many commenters said that the rule should reference the latest version of WCAG, whatever that may be. And the Department of Justice said, "We can't do that. We have to reference a live, existing document." We can't reference the latest version of something because the latest version may not exist at the time of writing. And taking this to an extreme level, if WCAG 3 was published and they got rid of some of the requirements, so there was no requirements for cognitive accessibility, let's say then, a rule that said, "You must comply with or conform to the latest version of WCAG." You'd be stuck with a rule that told you to reference a version that people thought.
That's not a good enough standard to conform to." So, the Department of Justice is very clear to specify something that already exists. And the downside of that means that if and when an updated version is published, then the rule will need to be rewritten. The fact that it referenced 2.1, not 2.2, was, in �my understanding at least, because 2.2 had been published too soon before the publication of the rule for the Department of Justice to be confident that state and local government entities understood the extra requirements of WCAG 2.2. So, they went for the version that had been published quite some time before that, 2018, if my memory serves, for WCAG 2.1. That's why they chose one version below the current version. And presumably, there will be a mechanism in place to review the rule, and then decide, "Does it need to be updated? And if so, this is the process for doing so." And yeah, the rule definitely focuses on achieving a technical level of accessibility.
But there is something interesting in the rule that takes a step further to think there is an aspect of usability in here. So, there's an exception, where in limited situations, public entities might be able to show that even though the piece of web content or mobile app doesn't meet WCAG 2.1 Level AA, that non-conformance is, in a way, so minor that it wouldn't change a disabled person's access to the content or mobile app. I feel like it was written to say, "Well, there's a technical accessibility issue, but it's in the footer, and it's not going to stop anybody from interacting with the site or using it to be successful in completing tasks and achieving goals." But then, when you look at it the other way around, it says, "Unless I can be successful in achieving goals, there's a problem here." So, the ADA is ultimately about equal access to program services and activities and in equal access, because a website has been designed in a way that doesn't make it efficient and effective for somebody who's blind or low-vision to use that site, that's still a problem, even if there might be an argument, "Well, yes, it meets a technical level of conformance." The parent requirements of the ADA still require that access is not only technically possible, but it's reasonably effective in terms of usability.
OLEG:
Now, what is the level of awareness about the impending requirements, and those changes, and what is the level of readiness?
DAVID:
There's growing awareness, but I think there's also a level of, "We're not quite sure where to start or how �to move forward." And certainly, in the Vispero service delivery team, and I'm sure in other digital accessibility agencies as well, there's a lot of conversations going on. We know we need to do something, but we just don't know where to begin and we don't have a lot of resources available, and we've got a lot of PDFs that we have no idea how accessible they are. There's a lack of action because people don't know where to begin. That's where, hopefully, trusted guidance can help, say, "Okay, let's just pause and figure out where are you just now and what's the best way to move forward?"
I think it's important to give the Department of Justice some credit in providing some basic guiding resources. On the ada.gov website, there's a fact sheet on the rule, there's specific guidance for smaller state and local government entities. So, there's some good public information out there on how to start the process of moving towards meeting your obligations. And in general terms, understanding what the rule requires you to do and which of your digital resources are subject to the rule. For a lot of organizations, not even knowing what kind of digital resources you have makes the challenge even greater. It's like, we don't even know what we've got, let alone how accessible it is.
So, starting with that stock-taking, inventorying of what you have and what is subject to the Title II rule, and then prioritizing that list of resources in terms of what are we going to check first, what are we going to fix first? That's the start of a plan. That's the start of a strategy where you're being intentional rather than reacting and doing it piecemeal or ad hoc. So, as general advice, I think that's a really good first step to go. The other helpful thing is that state and local government entities should already have some form of ADA compliance structure in place. They've been required to do so for many years. Many state and local government entities will have an ADA coordinator, or maybe more than one.
So, they're a great resource, even if their duties have historically been focused on physical accessibility or providing accommodations to people with disabilities, there should be an infrastructure already within an organization. And it's connecting that with whoever's in charge of the digital resources to say, "Okay, we need to all work together on efforts to address accessibility." So, that very prioritized approach, taking note of the exemptions in the rule, to say, "Well, if we don't have a lot of time, we don't have a lot of resources, then let's focus on the high traffic, the significant resources first, the ones that people need to use. The ones that people can't use, then there's a serious problem, and then we'll go through that list in prioritized order."
So, organizations like us can help with that initial conversation. And then there�s the big work of evaluating resources, doing an accessibility audit to find out where the issues are, gathering information that may already be known. Are there reports from people with disabilities who have said, "I cannot use this website, I can't access this PDF." Gathering that information and say, "This is important evidence of where our problems lie." So, taking all of that information as part of this prioritized effort to evaluate current state, and then remediating resources. But at the same time, starting to put processes in place so that anything new that a public entity builds, either internally or procures from a third party, is accessible from that compliance date, whether it's this year or next year.
It can be easy to focus on looking at things you already have and testing it and fixing it, but you must take steps to start improving processes and practices so that anything new that's built and made available beyond the deadline meets the accessibility requirement. That stuff will all have to be tested and fixed as well. So, it's a parallel effort to review and fix what you've got, and then strengthen processes so that what you build from now on is born accessible and stays accessible. For example, templates that are used to create Word documents that are then used to generate PDF versions, starting with accessible resources, with giving people guidance, encouraging people to use inbuilt checking tools.
That can all really help in pointing people to those resources to say, "These can help you, so �make use of them." That helps spread the load and avoids making accessibility seem like something that's at the same time, very vague, but very high pressure, "You must do it, but we're not going to tell you exactly what you need to do." That's a tough situation to be in.
And I think the other thing is just anything that an organization can do to try and break down the task into achievable parts and recognize success when something has been achieved. I think what's always one of the challenges of accessibility is, that there are many different requirements for different audiences, and it's important to ultimately meet them. Starting off doing something that has a positive impact on somebody, then celebrating that achievement and moving on gives people confidence that this is something that can be done even if it does take time.
And the last thing I'd say is, while all this work is underway, having a clear communication channel to receive feedback and provide support to people affected by accessibility barriers helps you show to members of the public, to anyone affected by digital inaccessibility, that there's a way to get help and support while the barriers are being addressed. And that feedback loop makes clear that this is something that an organization is aware of and is doing something about rather than saying nothing, and then just hoping that the problems go away.
OLEG:
Apparently, the accessibility effort is supposed to be paid from local resources, right? It's not federal money, so a municipality may say, "We just don't have the resources."
DAVID:
Yeah, it's been one of the criticisms of the Title II accessibility rules, that the rule was published without a clear injection of funding to support state local governments implement the rules. At the same time, the Department of Justice always publishes a financial analysis of the impact of a rule. And the figures are there in the rule to show the impact of making the necessary changes versus dealing with the consequences of the inaccessibility that would persist if the rule wasn't in place. Yes, there is a question of budget. There's a short-term pain of investing in understanding where you are making fixes, but embedding improvements in processes and practices and procuring third party solutions that come with accessibility can ultimately lead to improved efficiency in delivering services. When online services are available and accessible to everybody, that can help save money by providing a more efficient service, a cheaper service, but a better service, a more available service. And again, when you do provide digital services, making them as easy to use as possible ultimately can lead to cost savings.
OLEG:
Now, I would dare to say that most of our listeners do not work for or in a state or local governments, but they do get in contact with a state or local services, which will fall under Title II. As an end user, what can I do to help my municipality, my local services, my state services, to be compliant and to assess where they are?
DAVID:
That's a great question, and I think one approach is encouraging people who need accessibility to report accessibility barriers. That means letting somebody know where it was, what you couldn't do. That's still helpful information. It can help in a number of ways. First of all, it says, "I tried to do this thing and I couldn't on your website, or I couldn't on this document that you provided to me." It makes the problem real, so it makes people pay attention. It gives state and local government entities information about where issues are. It might help prioritize efforts. So then, when we think about data that might help with that prioritization effort, to understand what do we test and fix first, here's a great example.
Somebody tried to do something and couldn't, and we have a report on it, so that information is going to be valuable. Of course, I don't want to imply that it's only the responsibility of people who encounter barriers to fix them. The public entities have the ultimate legal responsibility to remove barriers and provide equal access, but it's certainly something that can be done. And also raising awareness of, where possible, where you know about them, resources that help people understand about digital accessibility. Like I say, the ada.gov website has lots of great information about Title II and how it applies to the digital world and what to do about it, what strategies are there.
Sometimes, we immediately jump to the web content accessibility guidelines, which are the ultimate reference, but they're also, for first time users, incredibly overwhelming in terms of the technical detail that they go into. So often, when you're trying to motivate somebody to do something about a problem, they maybe didn't even realize was a problem, and you want to start with something that's less technical and more like, "Well, let me explain the problem I'm having. Let me show you and then let me help you figure out who should fix it and what fixing looks like."
OLEG:
Where do we find you? You go to vispero.com, right? To get in touch with Vispero's accessibility team?
DAVID:
Yes, and in the website, the What We Offer section includes details of the digital accessibility services that we provide. The very first link is Assess your ADA Title II Readiness, which takes you to a page which includes a contact form, and that's an immediate place to ask for somebody to get in touch to talk about what you might need as a public entity or as a private entity that sells digital resources, software apps, content to public entities, and we can have a conversation there. There's also lots of different articles that we've written about the Title II Digital Accessibility Rules. I've recorded a couple of webinars that should be available online, or you may be able to find recordings of them.
OLEG:
Yeah, it's on vispero.com and resources. There's an excellent blog. There are articles. Most of our listeners, again, will be more familiar with freedomscientific.com, but for this part of the equation, vispero.com is the resource to study, and you'll find lots of great reference materials there.
Well, David, thank you for joining us on FSCast, and thank you for heading up this effort and making sure that local resources and state resources are accessible, and people who need that assistance have a place to request it and to find it.
DAVID:
Thank you, Oleg, really enjoyed the conversation today.
OLEG:
Last month, we played part one of my interview with Olga Esp�nola. At that time, I said, "If we get at least 10 requests, we'll play part two in February." Well, you sent in way more than 10 requests, and part two of the interview is right here. I did record some additional bits of that in the process. In the meantime, something else happened, which I'll share with you at the end of this recording. But for now, here is part two of our chat with Olga Esp�nola.
Olga, you mentioned training, and you mentioned mentoring. What does it take to become a good mentor? What are some of the essential qualities of a mentor?
OLGA ESP�NOLA:
The first word that comes immediately to mind is patience. You need to understand that the person you are mentoring is maybe afraid to ask a question for feeling, "This is stupid, I'm not going to ask this." And you have to somehow get them comfortable enough with you that whatever the question is, it's not a stupid question. The only question that's stupid is the one you didn't ask because you were afraid to ask it. And as a mentee, you need to somehow get comfortable enough with the person mentoring you to understand that if they are a good mentor, that person is never going to say, "Well, that's a stupid question. You should know how to do that by now." Never. Patience. Repetition is not always the way to mentor. It seems like it should be, "Well, just teach them the same thing over and over again." No, because if the person is not understanding what you are explaining, that means it's not their fault. It's not anybody's fault. It's more a question of, "Okay, what do I need to do as a mentor to make this person have a better understanding? What questions do they need to ask me? What questions do I need to ask them about why it is they're not understanding?", and so on. So again, it's a matter of patience.
OLEG:
So, on the one hand, we have patient and clear. On the other hand, we have demanding and sometimes strict. How do those two live together?
OLGA:
It depends on what it is you're trying to accomplish and with what deadlines. If there is a hard deadline for someone, then that makes it a little bit more difficult. And you have to find ways to somehow balance the two things, where you can't be strict and demanding and expect that the person receiving the information is going to be comfortable with that. You have to somehow exude confidence, exude commitment, help the person understand that you have their back and you're here to help them. But that at the same time, spoon-feeding is not going to help them move forward.
So, if the person you're finding is, "Well, just do it for me. I really don't understand it. I don't have time to learn it," then you have to find a way to get the point across that says, "What about the day I'm not here to help you? How are you going to figure it out then?" So, it is a very difficult balancing act at times, but I have found that the best thing you can do is to be patient and keep finding a different way to explain the same thing, and also understand that there are some people for whom, by rote, is the only way. Not everyone learns the same way. Not everyone processes the same way. So, you need to understand your audience and learn about your audience.
So, you have to start by finding out, "Okay, what do you know already?", so that you don't bore the person to tears with stuff they already know, but at the same time, as you listen to, "What do you already know?", find the gaps in the knowledge, and then help them bridge those gaps.
OLEG:
After working with you for many years, I think you are somewhat strict and demanding on yourself. How does that change now that you're in retirement?
OLGA:
Well, the first thing I can say is that I no longer get up at 6:30 in the morning. However, my German Shepherd has taken a while to get used to maybe sleeping in a little bit. And so, I get up nowadays closer to 7:15, which doesn't sound like much, but it makes a difference. One of the things that I had said when I left the formal everyday work was that I needed to rebalance, find a better balance between the grind of the day-to-day meetings every five minutes, all of that, and doing things for me and my family. I am able to spend much more quality time with my life partner, Richard Pearson, with whom I've been together for a little over 24 years at this point. And it makes a difference that way because in the past, I was so busy, not just in my office, but even in the living room where I do have another laptop. And the television would be on, I would just put my headphones on and keep working instead of really interacting with Dick. I would always say during baseball season, we are avid baseball fans, "Well, I may actually get to hear what goes on in the eighth or ninth inning because right now, I'm busy finishing up," whatever. That has most definitely changed, so that now, I don't feel that pressure to just keep going, keep finishing because I need closure. And I'm one of those people that feels like, "If I haven't finished whatever it is, something's wrong. I've got to finish it today."
And that is very difficult for me to say at 4:00, 5:00, "Okay, you've done enough for today. You are able to put off some of it for tomorrow, and I suggest that it's what you decide to do with your time."
One thing we've done now, which is really fun, is, there are a lot of YouTube videos that quiz you as seniors, and they say things like, "If you can answer these, at least 15 general knowledge questions, you're a mastermind." I mean, silly things like that, but they are very helpful to keep your brain sharp in a different way than anything I remotely had time to do before. So, Dick and I are enjoying doing some of those, and again, watching a movie and literally doing that together, the quality time is so important to share with your family. And that is something that was very much missing.
So, that is very important that I've reintroduced. I'm also looking into getting a piano because I adore the piano, and I used to play it many years ago, and I think it's like riding a bicycle. I will remember how to play the piano again, I'm sure.
So, retirement does not mean the end of things. And the wonderful news about Vispero is I am still very much engaged with Vispero because I'm on the beta list. Being able to help as much as possible, not in the same way, not as much, but there's always something more to learn and do. And that's what's important, is keep learning when the clock stops for work. Because you're no longer working does not mean that you should not stay engaged with technology, just maybe differently.
OLEG:
You spoke extensively today about your contribution to Vispero's products, but what did you get out of working for Freedom Scientific/Vispero for all these years? Other than the paycheck, what it is that you've learned? And I guess there are many things, but one or two that stand out to you. What did you get out of this experience of those years of your life?
OLGA:
Helping others. When I've gotten someone like Dr. Robinson to come back and say, "I've now created another YouTube video showing beautiful math," those things almost bring tears to me because it says that for all those people that didn't think it was possible, now they're maybe thinking there's hope for them to do something that I couldn't do when I was first in... "Oh, it was such a struggle with those Braille books." People have no idea how good they have it right now. And it's only going to get better with some of the AI work that's going on, the MathCat work that is going on with Neil Soiffer's work from MIT, a lot of the brilliant people coming behind me. That's what I want. If talking about any kind of legacy that I may have, it shouldn't stop with me.
I want another Olga to come around at some point that is able to say what I have been able to say about all of this, that the reward is the people who are coming next, the young people who are in their 20s, maybe just entering college, as well as that kid who's only in the second grade, not having to deal with those silly cubes that I had to deal with, but instead having the math, the Braille, right at their fingertips, and having teachers teach them that. And then, being able to proceed through school and maybe finding themselves in some science program or some applied math program, as we have a person who was able to go to Harvard in applied math because of JAWS and math and Braille.
That's what it's about for me. If I've learned anything at all, it's that through a lot of patience, allowing yourself to be mentored. No matter when, no matter how, no matter who it is, never turn down the opportunity to learn. That's what it's about, should always be about.
OLEG:
Now, this was part two of our interview with Olga Esp�nola. Some bits of this were actually re-recorded on February 4th, and that's where she's talking about Richard Pearson, her life partner of almost 25 years. Only two days after we recorded that bit, we got the sad news that Richard Pearson passed away. Our hearts and our thoughts and our prayers go out to Olga, we love you, we treasure you, not just because of what you've done, but for who you are.
And you know what I'm thinking of? In her interview, Olga talks about focusing on what's really important and what really matters. I think that's the focus, that in today's busy world, many of us are missing. In my heart's desire, is that we would be able to regain that.
And with these thoughts, I'd like to close this issue 267 of FSCast for February 2026. You can reach us by writing to [email protected], or for training-related matters, write to [email protected].
So, let's keep focused on what really matters, and see you all in March.