OLEG SHEVKUN:
On FSCast episode 264, we discuss your solutions and challenges with reading books and other documents on a Windows PC. We meet Andrés felipe Pulgarín, a musician and a longtime JAWS user from Colombia. And finally, We discover new grounds with Page Explorer, getting to use Trello for the very first time.
So hi everyone, and welcome to FSCast for November 2025. I'm Oleg Shevkun. We've got a full episode ahead of us. We've got a product demonstration and an interview with a guest from ... all the way from Colombia. But before we get to all that, I'd like to thank those of you who responded to my question about how you read books on your PC. And apparently the issues around reading books and other materials under Windows are familiar to quite a few of you.
Richard Turner shares quite an interesting idea. Let me tell you upfront, I would be too lazy to implement this, but Richard is definitely not lazy. And he writes, "I track the books I have read over the years in an Excel spreadsheet where I include the title, subtitle, author, narrator, if an audiobook, date finished, notes, format, genre, and the summary, usually the one provided by the publisher."
Well, thank you, Richard. Once again, I'm amazed. And the beauty of it is that Excel allows you to sort your spreadsheets. So you could easily get an overview of your past reading based on any of those fields. For example, you could ask yourself, "What have I read by this particular author?" Or, "What have I read in sci-fi category?" And it would take you just a couple of seconds to figure it all out. Now, if I was to do the same thing, I would have to just sit down and remember, and it definitely would be much more than a couple of seconds, and no guarantee that I would remember all of them.
Now, some of you mentioned using specialized accessibility software like our own product called OpenBook. Many of those products have not been updated for a number of years. Yet in practical terms, they often get the job done. And they're not only easy, but also efficient to use. Kornelis Eefting
shows us another side of the story. He writes, "Recently, I tried Thorium Reader. For me, this software is not easy to use. The interface is not transparent, and in my opinion, unnecessarily complex."
Now, a couple of you have written in to talk about an issue that affects the academic and research community. Professor Panagiotis Antonopoulos from Greece writes, "Microsoft Word is my favorite reading tool as I'm a braille user working with several languages simultaneously. However, its drawback is that if reading imported files like an ebook, it usually loses the correct pagination. This is an issue for us, as we cannot make correct references within footnotes."
In his email, Dr. Antonopoulos mentions his colleague, Dr. Mark Weiler from Canada. And Dr. Weiler also wrote in and he says, "I can attest to Professor Antonopoulos' statement about the importance of reading software supporting footnotes." Dr. Weiler continues, "If you ask the audience how they deal with it, what if people have given up hope for a better way and are just coping?"
Quite frankly, I do agree with Dr. Weiler when he says that somehow we've learned to "cope" with some of this, and that's definitely not a good thing. Therefore, I've got a follow-up question for you: are there any areas of poor accessibility where you've lost hope for improvement and you've just learned to, quote unquote, "cope" with it? I'll repeat the question once again. Are there any areas where the accessibility is substandard, but you've lost hope and you've just learned to "cope" with it? If the answer is yes, then I'd appreciate you telling us what these areas are, and you can send your emails to fscast@vispero.com.
And now it's time to expand our virtual studio, and we will indeed expand it all the way to Medellin, Colombia, where we're joined by Andrés felipe Pulgarín, a singer, a musician, a technology enthusiast, a JAWS user with many years of experience, and a great gentleman to get to know. Hello Andrés, and welcome to FSCast.
ANDRÉS FILIPE PULGARÍN:
Hello there, Oleg. Thank you so very much for having me. It's such a pleasure to be here.
OLEG:
Now, before we go any further, let me play something for you here.
TRACK: Viejo Triplecito, from Y Soy Feliz, by Andres Felipe Pulgarin
OLEG:
How old were you when you recorded this?
ANDRÉS:
I was 10 years old. That was back in 2003.
OLEG:
And how do you feel when you're hearing this now in 2025?
ANDRÉS:
It sends shivers down my spine, because I mean, those moments when I was recording that CD, its title is Y Soy Feliz, or And I'm Happy for short. That was just amazing. The whole production of the album, I mean, I just don't have words to describe what I feel right now.
OLEG:
How did you get to be a recording artist at the age of 10?
ANDRÉS:
So I started my career since I was like six years old, to be more exact. I played piano since I was four. I started to play with one of those toy keyboards that my parents gave me, one of those, and I started playing with it and toying a little bit, and then I discovered that music was something I liked a lot. And then when I was six, I did small gigs, if you will, like in my uncle's houses, I don't know, stuff like that. And then at my school, one of my teachers recommended me to a group of people that were looking for young talents for a campaign that was called Help Us to Help, in which they were donating braille slates and a lot of study material for kids who were blind and visually impaired. And I was like the mascot of that campaign.
OLEG:
What was the name of the campaign in Spanish?
ANDRÉS:
That was Ayúdenos a ayudar.
OLEG:
And you were yourself blind, right?
ANDRÉS:
Yes. I'm blind since birth.
OLEG:
Why was this campaign even necessary? I mean, in many countries you have the government or large organizations helping to take care of blind people, and here you had to collect and to gather slates and styluses. Why so?
ANDRÉS:
This campaign was put together by the first lady back then, Nohra Puyana, and I think this was like a mixed collaboration between the government and the private sector. It's not easy for us to get these type of help. Of course, we do have institutions, but it's never that easy to get that kind of material for students and all that kind of stuff.
OLEG:
So Andres, did you feel more like a blind kid needing help, or a blind celebrity starting your celebrity career?
ANDRÉS:
Well, I felt more as a blind celebrity. Of course, I needed the help, but the attention that I received back then, and I do remember I even appeared in some news channels. Yeah, so there was a lot of attention back then that I actually received, and that made me feel a little bit more like a celebrity, which also needed that help, of course.
OLEG:
Were you using any assistive technology at that time, or was it all slate and stylus?
ANDRÉS:
It was all slate and stylus, because assistive technology back then over here in Colombia was pretty much unknown. But I do have an anecdote of that. So I was invited to the presidential palace, which is called Casa de Nariño over here in Colombia, in Bogota, I got to meet the president and the first lady, and they invited me to an event in which they were pretty much going to give away all of these materials and all that. And that was on September the 11th, 2001. That same day, I took a plane at approximately eight o'clock in the afternoon in the morning from Medellin to Bogota, and then when I got to Bogota, the person that picked us up was like, "Listen, there is a mess going on at the World Trade Center." And they were talking all over the ... The news was only about that and all that.
They canceled the event, but I got a tour through one of the national institutions for the blind over here that's called INSE, and I remember that one of the places was a little room in which there was a computer and a braille display with JAWS four point something. And they showed me exactly that. And I was like, "Okay, so this is a computer with a program called JAWS," And they showed me how it worked. It was quite amazing for me because they showed me just an office document, a Word document back then, how was that displaying on the braille display. And I felt the cursor blanking and all that kind of stuff. And then they were like, "Oh, and it can speak English too." And I was like, "Really?" And they made it speak English. Ironically, that was my first encounter with assistive technology.
OLEG:
You did not remain a Wonder Kid for a long time. Were you planning to make singing into a career, and how did that change? Or, how was that affected when your voice was changing? Was that a bit of a shock, or were you ready for that?
ANDRÉS:
I was ready for that. They basically asked me to pretty much leave it for a while and focus on other things. The problem is, that while I remained in that hiatus, if you will, I was going through a lot of depression. However, it was back then, we're talking 2007 approximately, where I got the first internet connection at home. And I remember very well as well that once internet got home, it helped me a lot with the different things. I started to improve my English, I started to read a lot. One day I recall particularly that I had this friend who's pretty much of a tech savvy. He was a lot more advanced into computers and all that kind of things. And he shows me like, "Hey, you know what? There's this program called Skype." Yeah, that was the super revolutionary back then. And he showed me how it worked and how it was able to make calls. And he used to give me these little CDs packed with a bunch of programs. And he also copied in that same CD the What's New for JAWS version 8.0, which I was able to hear on my stereo. And I was listening to that, and I heard that Mr. Eric Damery back then gave his Skype ID away. And I was like, "Okay, I'm going to talk to Mr. Eric Damery.". I contacted him. It was quite crazy, because he answered almost immediately. He was really patient with me. I mean, this 14-year-old kid calling. And that was my first contact with somebody who spoke English natively, and I don't even know if he was able to understand my English, I was not quite proficient, but I loved it. I loved talking to him and asking him about JAWS. And he was really patient. I don't know. That was really good.
OLEG:
So you said you were concentrating on other things and having other priorities. What were those priorities?
ANDRÉS:
So I started playing with software that was able to turn text into MP3, like into MP3 formats and all that kind of things. And on October the 26th of that year I started a little project/company slash ... I don't know what to call that. I called it AndySoft Project. And the main goal at AndySoft was to create digital talking books, mainly for blind or visually impaired individuals that wanted to read something. Later I started playing with Daisy, like converting texts into Daisy 2, Daisy 3, and AndySoft became something bigger. The problem is that I was the only one working on that. It was a one person project. So I committed to that. I mean, I committed to creating those audio books and later on Daisy books. I also did material for trying to train people on how to use a computer, on how to use JAWS, things like that.
OLEG:
But wait, you would've been a teenager. Were you at school then as well?
ANDRÉS:
Yes, I was in seventh grade at school.
OLEG:
Was that a specialized school for the blind or was that a mainstreaming situation?
ANDRÉS:
No, I actually studied at a mainstream school since pretty much the first year, because back in 1998 or something like that, '97, '98, the government decided to ... First they decided to shut down the school for the blind, and afterwards they turned it into a mixed thing between blind, deaf blind, and sighted kids, so yeah. But most of us were sent to regular schools or mainstream schools.
OLEG:
So how was it then? I mean, were you receiving additional help or tutoring? How did you build relationships with other kids and so on?
ANDRÉS:
Initially I was pretty much on my own because nobody had idea on how to read braille. Teachers were not pretty much interested on learning this new system. And my parents had to transcribe everything from braille to print in order for them to be able to understand the homework and all that kind of things, and then-
OLEG:
So, like, you did a home assignment in Braille, and your parents would have to transcribe this into print, is that correct?
ANDRÉS:
Yes, that's correct.
OLEG:
That meant they had to learn braille.
ANDRÉS:
They had to learn braille as well. That's correct.
OLEG:
Is that normal in your country? At that time at least, would most parents of blind kids learn braille? Because to me, that seems quite an accomplishment by your parents.
ANDRÉS:
Over here, that's pretty much like the daily breath. If you had a visually impaired kid, you had to sit down an entire day at school, learn braille, learn how to use the abacus and follow up training as well as pretty much at the same time that I received it. Luckily, my parents were quite committed. So if my mother was not able to be with me at school because she had to work, then my father did.
OLEG:
Now, after finishing school, were you able to go to university or college? And what's the situation overall for blind and visually impaired kids in Colombia?
ANDRÉS:
To be very honest, I never attended university. I did want to study something related to languages, given the fact that I really, really love languages, but unfortunately some public universities, if not most of them, they do some sort of like a test in order to find out if you're competent for certain areas. The problem is, that if the test that they do has to do a lot with math and logical reasoning and all that kind of things. And for example, in my case, I have a problem with that. I am a person that can talk a lot about many different topics and subjects, but because of the way that math was taught to me, for example, I'm not able to do large operations or large math operations in my mind or do any sort of abstract or logical reasoning. So that stopped me a lot to do that. And I took the same tests to get admitted at the University of Antioquia approximately five times in a row and never made it.
OLEG:
So there is no understanding of the fact that people can be different, we are all created different.
ANDRÉS:
That's correct.
OLEG:
So for a teenager, that rejection must have been hard. How do you feel about it?
ANDRÉS:
At first, it made me feel really self-conscious, especially because there is this thought that if you're not good in math or ... Especially I had teachers that told me like, "You know what? You could be the best musician ever, but if you do not know how to count, you're not going to be able to make it."
OLEG:
But Andrés, that's a lie.
ANDRÉS:
That's right. And I came to understand that just about now. And on the other hand, depression was caused not by that specifically, but because I got into that world of fame and applauses here and there and people wanting to have people talk to me or sign autographs and whatever, and I felt quite alone. I was surrounded by a bunch of people, but at the end of the day, I felt really lonely, and I felt like my life is quite empty, to be honest.
OLEG:
How about friendships, though?
ANDRÉS:
I did make a couple of friends here and there, but it was then. And after I decided to quit music as a profession, I found out that those were not really my friends.
OLEG:
So that must have been quite a turning point.
ANDRÉS:
Indeed. But well, I mean, I also learned to deal with it and to live with it and understand that sometimes people are with you just because of what you have, and not because of who you are.
OLEG:
What would you say to a teenager who might be listening to us right now, and he or she is being told the same stuff, maybe somewhat different like, "Okay, you're not able to count well, you're not going to make it in life." Or somebody says, "You're not musical enough, you're not going to be able to make it." Or just as it happens in some parts of the world, "You're blind, you're not going to make it." And you kind of start thinking, "I'm not worthy as much as those other people who can count or who can sing or who are not blind." That affects your self-understanding and the understanding of who you are. What would you say to a teenager, or probably even an adult person, getting through those kinds of doubts?
ANDRÉS:
Well, through those years I have learned that everybody has different abilities, different ways of doing things, different skills. Do not allow anybody to tell you you're not capable, you can't do this, you're not going to make it. Instead, believe that you're good at what you are and make those abilities to shine and show others that this is definitely something that gives you a potential and that allows you pretty much to excel.
OLEG:
So what was your own path of finding your self-worth? How did you find your direction in life then?
ANDRÉS:
So after I graduated from school and I tried to make it through university, I started to think, okay, what's going to become of me? I mean, I already understood that I had a purpose, because there were things that I was doing that showed me what I wanted to do, but of course I always had this pressure of, okay, you have to go to a university, you have to graduate after that, you have to make a doctorate. I don't know, you have to get married, get kids, a family, et cetera, et cetera. When I got my first job in 2013, when I was 18, I found out that I was able to use my English to help others, and well, I learned a lot about customer service. I learned about helping others. That was like what really showed me what was going to come up next.
Afterwards, I resigned that call center that I was working at in 2014 and I became a tutor for this program that came along, which was called Licencia País, which is the country licenses that allowed us to receive JAWS over here. And I became a tutor for that program. That helped me a lot and I really learned a lot about that.
OLEG:
Is the program still going on, and are you still involved?
ANDRÉS:
Well, it's still going on. However, I'm not involved in it. I only had like a three months contract, but that experience was really, really great. I mean, that was one of the best experiences I've ever had, because I not only learned to teach or transmit knowledge, but I also learned a lot more about JAWS for Windows in many ways.
OLEG:
Did that also help you to communicate with people better? Because when you're transmitting knowledge, you have also got to learn to listen, to figure out where the person is, before you help him or her to get to where they would like to be. Did that help you to develop your people skills?
ANDRÉS:
Yes, absolutely. That has helped me a lot. Also to understand and to empathize with people in many contexts. The knowledge that I acquired in that experience was so amazing and it's something that I still use nowadays. I'm currently teaching English to some people, and that's something that I pretty much got from there.
OLEG:
How did your career path develop after your experience in that program?
ANDRÉS:
Well, after my experience in that program, I was for a couple of months without a job, but I was still learning a lot of things about JAWS, and I was quite involved with the customers, and in the call center industry as well. I started to work for an insurance company from Colombia that was working with one of these insurance programs in the states. And of course I had to develop sales skills and learn how to sell a product or how to sell a policy. As a matter of fact, that is one of the things that helped me most to develop an English vocabulary and to get a lot more fluent with the language. And yes, of course, I learned a lot about soft skills and how to deal with certain situations regarding frustration and many other possible scenarios that we get to deal with in that industry quite often.
OLEG:
That path of international facing employment, how common is that for other blind people in Colombia?
ANDRÉS:
Unfortunately, that's not quite common.
OLEG:
Why not?
ANDRÉS:
There are many things that play in here, because the first one is not everybody is willing to learn English or speaks English fluently. On the other hand, it's really hard to show companies that we as blind people are able to do stuff. I mean, I don't know how to put it. It's not easy to convince somebody that is interviewing you that you're able to do different things, that you can become competent in so many things. As a matter of fact, I faced that when I started to work for the company that I am at right now, which is also a call center. I had to pretty much take out my cell phone and show them how a screen reader works, and how are we as blind people able to move on a daily basis and to achieve certain tasks.
OLEG:
So in a way, even when looking for employment, you do have to be sort of an accessibility advocate, or as some people in the States would say, accessibility evangelist, just convincing people of accessibility, of the fact that blind and visually impaired applicants can actually do the job. If you had a choice, option A is to go to talk, to convince, and to help people change their mind, or option B, not to have to convince, but just to come and get employed, what would your choice be?
ANDRÉS:
I would definitely choose option A, because I think that people still need to be aware that, as blind people, we are definitely able to be productive, and that our impairment is not a barrier that is going to stop us from doing stuff. Of course, it would be quite good if you would not have to convince anybody, but just deliver your resume and start working. However, I do believe it's really important to at least show people what are we able to do and to achieve.
OLEG:
How has life for blind and visually impaired people in Colombia changed over the last 20 to 25 years?
ANDRÉS:
Well, I think nowadays it's still not that easy to get access to certain things. With the use of technology and this initiative of the government and the JAWS distributors over here in Colombia, everything has become a lot more easier. Now we're able to do much more things than 22, 25 years ago.
OLEG:
I feel there's a flow that has been interrupted. There is something that you were doing as a kid, and then later in life you came back to that, and that's music and singing. Tell me more about that.
ANDRÉS:
So I started my career, as I was telling you, back in 2001. However, when I launched my first and only album in 2003, that was pretty much like the start of my career professionally. And I can say it was a successful career, but it was also killing me, because there was a bunch of stuff going on with my manager, concerts here and there, but I also had to study and I had to do all my homework and all that kind of thing. So I had that pressure over me, and that was not helping me a lot. And then after I interrupted the career, although I took a rest of approximately two years, the depression was there, and the emptiness was still there. And of course I started to grow as a teenager and I had questions. So I was going through a lot of bad stuff back then.
OLEG:
How did you find a way out?
ANDRÉS:
So in 2010, when I was 17 years old, I was sitting at this class where everybody was painting and doing a bunch of stuff, like visual stuff and drawings and all that, and this girl sits next to me and started to talk to me about Jesus and about what He does. And I don't know, that was something so strong in my life and so tremendously impacting on me that, like approximately one, two weeks after that, I became a newborn Christian, and all of that depression and all of those problems started to fade away, and I started to feel pretty much brand new, if you will.
OLEG:
And you've been following Jesus for the last, what would that be, 15 years?
ANDRÉS:
15 years, yes.
OLEG:
What is the most fascinating thing about being a Christian that you could share?
ANDRÉS:
Well, being able to have a personal relationship with God, being able to talk to Him, being able to present your difficulties, your troubles, and still have peace, that's something priceless.
OLEG:
Now, you have technology and you have the relationship with God. How have those two components changed your life?
ANDRÉS:
Well, technology has helped me a lot, not only to express that passion by making music and by making songs for the Lord and whatnot, but also, of course, for us Christians, it's really important to study God's word, and technology has played a significant role in that, because thanks to JAWS and to these marvelous things that one can do with technology, I'm able to study the Bible and prepare sermons or prepare messages in a very easy and convenient way.
OLEG:
So, do you preach these days? Like, in a Christian church?
ANDRÉS:
Yes, I do serve as a musician, I mean, as the lead musician in my church, which is a small church, and I also serve as co-pastor.
OLEG:
How do you preach? Do you have a braille display on the pulpit or do you memorize the Bible passages? How does it work for you?
ANDRÉS:
Well, I wish I could have had a braille display. Matter of fact, that's one of my dreams, to have a braille display, because I think that will help me a lot to both prepare sermons as well as pretty much carry God's word without the need of having to hear a speech synthesizer and read. Of course, I do memorize a lot of passages. However, sometimes I have to use my cell phone for those cases where I have to look at Bible passages and sometimes I just listen to the screen reader and pretty much quote while listening to it speaking to me, or I could also quote passages by memory.
OLEG:
Thinking of your life, and one of the things people might ask you would be, why would you serve the God who made you blind?
ANDRÉS:
Because I am convinced that one day I will see Him. No matter if my eyes are not seeing anything, I'm 100% convinced that one day this body will be transformed and I will see Him. And I think He made me blind for a purpose, and I think He is fulfilling that purpose.
OLEG:
Andrés Felipe Pulgarín from Colombia. Thank you, Andres, for joining us on FSCast.
ANDRÉS:
Thank you so very much.
OLEG:
So for the next few minutes here on FSCast, I'd like us to do something that I absolutely enjoy doing, and that's exploring new grounds. As you know, we've just released JAWS and ZoomText and Fusion 2026, and in our JAWS and Fusion updates, there's a new feature called Page Explorer, currently available in our home and professional editions. Page Explorer allows you to get more information about a webpage or a web interface. You can think of it as an assistant staying by your side as you explore an unfamiliar territory. And I thought, let's try something unfamiliar right here on FSCast and see if Page Explorer can help us to get familiarized with the new ground.
So once again, the interface we're going to touch now is totally unfamiliar to me. It's called Trello. It is a system that's used by many businesses and corporations to manage tasks, to do lists, and so on.
I've never used Trello in the past, I've never had to, but for this Page Explorer demonstration, I created a Trello account, and you can do that for free, and you can actually get the premium features of Trello for 14 days to try it out. And I'm wondering if with Page Explorer we're going to be able to start using Trello in any meaningful way within 15 to 20 minutes. So that's quite an ask, but let's see if we can do that. I logged into Trello and I saw that the first thing you have to do is to set up a board, and there are some templates. So one of the templates is for daily task management, and that sounds interesting.
So I clicked on that daily task management template and Trello got me into a window, which we are going to explore.
Now, from previous experience with some colleagues, I know that you manage stuff in Trello via cards, but how are those cards laid out? And how you do that, we're going to find this out together.
So after clicking on the task management template, I have a webpage in my browser. I could spend some time figuring this out by arrowing through the page. Instead, I'm going to press insert shift-E for page explorer to let the AI do the job.
Here is what JAWS says:
· The page is structured with a top navigation area containing buttons and links for home. Creating boards, notifications, and user menus.
· Below the top navigation is the main content area showing a Trello board interface with multiple lists arranged horizontally.
· Each list contains tasks or cards, some with links.
· There is a secondary navigation region for switching between inbox, planner, board, and switchboards.
· Live regions are present for dynamic updates and alerts.
· The page uses headings to label the board and lists, with main board title as a large heading.
This page displays a public Trello template for daily task management, allowing users to view and copy a task board for organizing daily and backlog tasks.
· Headings present include a main heading level one for the board title and multiple heading level two elements for each task list.
· Landmark regions include a primary navigation at the top and a secondary navigation for board switching.
· There are buttons for board actions and links within task cards.
· Live regions announce updates dynamically.
· The main content is a list of task lists. Each containing task cards, some with links.
· For quick navigation use heading navigation to jump to the board title level one and to each task list level two.
· Use the navigation landmarks to jump to the primary navigation or the board switcher region.
· Be aware that some buttons may open menus or modals, but no keyboard traps were detected.
· The task list and cards are read only in this template view.
OLEG:
I'm going to stop this here. So it read quite a lot of stuff. There are four main sections here and we could navigate through those main sections by using H or shift-H, but also because they're level three headings, I could just be pressing 3 or shift-3 to navigate through those.
Now I'd like to ask some questions, because I really want AI to give me guidance here. So I'm going to the edit field by pressing E, and I'm going to type:
“How can I create a new task here?”. Then I press ENTER.
JAWS says:
You cannot create a new task directly on this page, because it is a public read only Trello template. The board is set as a template for viewing and copying only, no editing or adding tasks is allowed in this view. To create your own tasks:
OLEG:
Okay. So I do need to create my own board from this template after all, and I'll do that right now. Before doing that though, let me show you something else. So our page explorer results are presented in their own window. If I want to go back to the webpage, I can just alt-tab, and I can interact with a webpage. And to ask more questions about the current results, I can all tab to the window named FSCompanion, and that's the window where Page Explorer results are displayed.
Note: when we use Page Explorer, we're actually using FSCompanion. And that's quite important, because FSCompanion is instructed to give us the response with accessibility in view. So for example, when I ask a question, how do I do this or that on a webpage, it already knows that I'm using JAWS, and it knows that I'm using the keyboard rather than the mouse. So the focus will be keyboard navigation rather than mouse navigation. And it will also tell me about JAWS commands. So a bit earlier, I told you that using Page Explorer is like having an assistant by your side, but that's actually better than that. Using Page Explorer is like having an assistant who is deeply versed in assistive technology and who can guide you based on the technology you're actually using.
Now, I'm going to do something else though. Because I'm about to go to a new page, I realize that my context is going to change. So I am in my Page Explorer window. I'll close that now by pressing escape, and I'm going to find that “Create Board From Template” button on the webpage. For that, I’ll use the JAWS Find feature and search for “Create”, until I land on the desired button.
Then, I press ENTER to activate that button.
Result: a form opens, and I am prompted for title. That’s the title for my new board. And I’ll call this: “My Daily Tasks”.
I press TAB to navigate through the form, and the next combo box apparently has several choices, the default being “Trello Workspace”. I am fine with this one.
I continue navigating through the form elements, until I tab to the “Create” button. Let’s press ENTER to activate that. So far so good.
Page Explorer told me earlier that I have some lists, and I could navigate through those lists with H or shift-H because they are also formatted as headings. And for each list, there should be a create card button. Let's see if that's true. I'm going to press H, and I see some level 2 headings: Backlog; To Do Today.
Let me explore this “To Do Today” thing. I am arrowing down, and I see some buttons, as well as the “More Actions” menu. I open the menu, and there is a button called “Add a Card In To Do Today”. I'm pressing ENTER on that.
So I'm going to try to get more information now from Page Explorer, because I need some guidance on how to work with cards. And I'm going to press INSERT+SHIFT+E to start Page Explorer.
JAWS says:
· The page has a top navigation area with buttons and links for home. Creating boards, notifications, and user options.
· Below the top navigation is the main content area containing a board with multiple columns representing task list.
· Each column has a heading and contains cards or tasks. Some with checkboxes and links.
· There is a secondary navigation region for switching between inbox, planner, board, and switchboards.
· The page includes live regions that announce updates dynamically, such as changes to the board.
· The structure is typical of a task management board with interactive elements like buttons, check boxes, and text input areas.
This page is a Trello board used for daily task management. Showing lists of tasks organized by status and dates.
· Headings. The page uses heading level one for the board title and heading level two for each task list column, e.g. Backlog, To Do Today, Done Today.
· Landmark regions. There is a primary navigation landmark at the top and a secondary navigation region for board switching.
· Interactive elements include buttons for adding cards, check boxes for selecting views, and text areas for entering test details.
· There is a live region that announces updates to the board content.
· Forms are present for adding new cards with text input and buttons to submit or cancel.
· Tailored strategy. Use heading quick navigation to jump between the main board title, level one, and the task list columns level two. Use the navigation landmark to access the top menu quickly. Use the secondary navigation region to switch between inbox, planner, and board views. Watch for live region announcements when tasks are added or changed. When adding tasks, form fields are labeled and appear in logical order.
OLEG:
And again, it actually gave us a tutorial on using this Trello interface with access technology. But I do want something more targeted, though. So I'm going to go to the edit field to ask a follow-up question, and I'm going to type: “Explain the basics of working with cards in Trello”.
Here is what Page Explorer comes up with:
In Trello, cards are the main way to track tasks or items. Here's how to work with cards using a screen reader.
· Use heading navigation H key to move between lists, as each list has a heading level 2, e.g. backlog, to do today.
· Use the tab key to move into a list and to the Add Card button.
· Find the Add Card button at the bottom of any list.
· Press enter or space to activate it.
· A text area appears. Type the card title or task.
· Tab to the ad card button and press ENTER to save.
· Use the Cancel New Card button if you want to discard.
· Each card appears as a link or button under its list.
· Use tab or arrow keys to move through cards.
· Press enter or space to open a card for more details or actions.
· Use context menus often available via SHIFT+F10 or the APPLICATIONS key on a card to find move options.
· You can move cards between lists, e.g. from To Do Today, to Done Today, to track progress.
· Open a card and look for options like edit, archive, or delete.
· Use TAB to navigate through card actions.
· You can add descriptions, checklists, attachments, and comments to cards.
These options are available when a card is open. Use tab to find and activate them.
· Use list and heading navigation to quickly jump between sections.
· Listen for live region updates, as Trello announces changes like new cards or moved cards.
· The context menu on cards gives access to more actions.
This workflow helps you efficiently manage tasks and track progress on your Trello board.
OLEG:
Wow, again, that's quite a lot of information. There's something I'm still not clear on and I'm going to ask the next follow-up question. What if I'm working on a team? How can I share cards with other team members?
Page Explorer comes up with the following detailed explanation:
To share cards with other team members in Trello, follow these steps:
· Make sure your teammates are added to the board. Use the share board button often found near the board title or in the top navigation to invite others by email or Trello username.
· Navigate to the card you want to share.
· Press ENTER or SPACE to open the card.
· TAB to the member's button or section.
· Press enter. Then use arrow keys or search to find the teammate's name.
· Press enter to assign them to the card. They'll receive a notification.
· While a card is open, tab to the comment field.
· Type @, followed by the teammate's name, to mention them, e.g. @Alex.
· They'll be notified about the comment and the card.
· Open the card.
· TAB to the Share or More Actions menu.
· Copy the card link and send it to your teammate by email or chat.
· Use heading navigation to quickly move between lists and cards.
· Use TAB and arrow keys to move through card details and action buttons.
· Listen for live region updates when members are added or changes are made.
By assigning members and mentioning them in comments, you ensure everyone stays informed and can collaborate on tasks efficiently.
OLEG:
What we've just seen is like context sensitive help on steroids. Page Explorer knows exactly where I am, it knows what I'm doing, it sees my screen. It sees the accessibility tree behind that interface. It can analyze this. It has all the JAWS documentation and the standard accessibility documentation and it has access to a wealth of information on the web about the applications we're working with. And with that wealth of knowledge, with that wealth of information, it's now answering my questions.
So in the last few minutes we went from a totally unfamiliar interface to at least some beginner understanding of how this interface is working. And at each step we had our Page Explorer functionality to work with. And Page Explorer allowed us to get information and tips that we needed. That's why we're saying that Page Explorer is mostly a professional feature, and we do hope you will be using Page Explorer with your professional tasks. And yes, I know this demonstration was not flawless. I did have a choice. One possibility was to go through this interface on my own, and then show it to you, but that would eliminate the discovery factor, and I actually wanted that discovery factor to be there.
So with Page Explorer, we have another tool to discover new ground, and a tool in a toolbox is always a good thing.
Now, before we wrap up for this month, I'd like to go over our December webinars.
On December 4th, at noon Eastern, we have our next webinar in our AI series, and this time we're looking at Microsoft Copilot. To get registered, visit freedomscientific.com/training, or you can go directly to freedomscientific.com/learnai.
Then, there will be a prerecorded webinar on six Practical Tips For Using Gmail With JAWS. This recording will be published on our webinars page, and the address is freedomscientific.com/webinars. And as usual, you can get more information about our events, including webinars, on our blog. And the address for that is blog.freedomscientific.com. If you have any feedback about our training, write to training@vispero.com. And for your feedback regarding FSCast, write to fscast@vispero.com.
And that brings us to the end of our November episode of FSCast. We'll see y'all in December, hopefully right before Christmas. But for now, if you're in the States, enjoy your Thanksgiving week, and elsewhere in the world, enjoy the last days of the fall and the beginning of winter. And that's, of course, if you do have winter where you live.
And for now, I'm Oleg Shevkun on behalf of our entire team here at Vispero, wishing you all the best.