· Discussing some of the new features in our latest product updates with Elizabeth Whitaker.
· Finding out what it takes to be a good trainer from Dan Clark.
· Learning what's new at Aira, including the most recent partnership with Vispero from Everette Bacon.
All this and more on FSCast 253 for December 2024.
OLEG SHEVKUN
Hello and welcome to FSCast for December 2024. I'm Oleg Shevkun. And today with me in the studio is Elizabeth Whitaker. Elizabeth, hi and welcome.
ELIZABETH WHITAKER:
Hi, Oleg. Thank you for having me back.
OLEG:
One of the things that is happening here at the end of the year, we're releasing our product updates. And you and the training department have just done a webinar on our September and December product updates. What were you talking about? What were you highlighting?
ELIZABETH:
We did a webinar where we talked a lot about FSCompanion, the new AI tool that will help you learn JAWS and other Microsoft applications such as Word and Outlook and PowerPoint and so forth. And in this December update, which we've just released, that is now extended to ZoomText. And so, if you're looking for information about keyboard commands or tasks, for example, if you want to know how to change the voice rate or even the magnification in ZoomText, you can just run FSCompanion from either of those applications and it automatically knows what application you're running. So, if you're running ZoomText and you go there and you type in, how do I change magnification? It knows that you're talking about ZoomText. If you ask a JAWS question, you're in JAWS, it knows that you're talking about JAWS. And so, we demonstrated that and we talked also about multimonitor changes that we made in ZoomText. And that's all on our webinars on demand page. So, if users go tofreedomscientific.com/webinars, you can check out that webinar as well.
OLEG:
And talking of FSCompanion, there's a new command to bring it up. In the past, you had to go to our JAWS window and bring up the help menu and so on. Now all you do is, you press INSERT+SPACE,followed by F1, or it would be JAWSKEY SPACE followed by F1, and that will open FSCompanion immediately.
And another thing worth mentioning about FSCompanion is that we're paying great attention to the quality of the answers you receive. And in the last couple of months, the quality of our responses has dramatically improved. So, if you tried it back in September when it was fresh and new, it might be a good idea to try it again.
Another feature we've actually enhanced is Picture Smart, and you can now use Picture Smart in applications like Zoom and Teams, and it will know exactly what you want to hear, what you're interested in. Have you had a chance to try it yet, Elizabeth?
ELIZABETH:
Absolutely. I use that one all the time, where you can just use what we call the all-in-one command, which is INSERT+SPACE or JAWSKEY SPACE, followed by P for Picture Smart and then ENTER, and it knows what context you're in. So, for example, if you are in a PowerPoint slide, you can use that command and it will recognize the information in that image there in that slide. Or if you are in Zoom, it'll tell you more about the information, for example, if someone is sharing their screen in Zoom, it'll give you information about that. So, check that out, use that command. It's INSERT or JAWSKEY SPACE followed by P, then enter.
OLEG:
And also talking about this all in one Picture Smart, that's not so relevant to our US listeners. But in Europe and other parts of the world, a very frequently used application is WhatsApp Messenger. And on WhatsApp, people may be sending you pictures, they may be sending you images. So, when you are focused on a WhatsApp message containing an image, just press INSERT SPACE followed by P, followed by Enter, and the image will be described. JAWS will ignore everything else around that image and will focus only on the content that may be of interest to you.
And by the way, if you receive an image as an Outlook message attachment, you can simply focus on that image file in the message. You don't even have to open it, but just focus on it and press INSERT SPACE followed by P, followed by ENTER. And Picture Smart AI will give you the description of that image.
There are also some changes in our OCR functionality. Could you please mention some of those?
ELIZABETH:
Absolutely. So, we are using a similar command for all-in-one. For example, INSERT or JAWSKEY SPACE, followed by O for convenient OCR, and then ENTER. And one of the examples that I really like to give and I found very useful is if you are watching a YouTube video and you want some information about maybe some text that's on the screen, and for example, song lyric videos are a good example of that. So, you can use that command Insert Space O followed by Enter, and you will be able to get that information in the video.
OLEG:
I have to say this depends greatly on the quality of the video itself. So, how are the lyrics presented, the font and everything else? But to take it to another dimension, imagine you are studying a foreign language and you also have a braille display connected and you're watching a video about some phenomenon in that foreign language, and there are illustrations on the screen, there is a text on the screen, or you're taking a class and the instructor is displaying some text on the screen.
So, turn on background OCR. You can do this all in one as Elizabeth explained. Or you can also do Insert Space followed by O, followed by B for background OCR. And the information that's presented on the screen will be OCRed automatically right there for you. But also, it'll be shown on the braille display. That's what you can get with this latest JAWS update. So, if you haven't tried the December update yet, this is a good chance to doit.
Now, throughout Sharkvember, you did a number of webinars, and one of the speakers was Dan Clark. We're going to hear an interview with Dan in just a couple of minutes. Let me ask you, is Dan always that quiet?
ELIZABETH:
Yes. Dan has been a trainer for many years, and he has this very calming demeanor, this very calming voice, and he just presents the information in such a way that makes sense, and he's always just very calm, and it was great getting to partner with him again.
OLEG:
Not only is he calm, but he's also confident, and that's good. And the other guest we have later on this episode is Everett Bacon, Chief of Blindness Initiatives at Aira. Do you happen to be an Aira user?
ELIZABETH:
I sure am, yes.
OLEG:
Any use scenarios or any use cases lately where Aira turned out to be of help to you?
ELIZABETH:
The one that comes to mind for me recently is when I was installing an application on my personal computer, and there was a screen that I just couldn't get past because I could not locate the button, or I wasn't even sure if it was a button. I just knew there was probably a control that I needed to navigate to. So, Aira was able to help me out and get me past that one little step, and I was then able to finish installing the application and go on and use it.
OLEG:
And to me, Aira is a great example of a service where you have both AI, which is artificial intelligence, but also human intelligence, and the two work hand-in-hand. That's pretty cool. Shall we move right into those interviews?
ELIZABETH:
Yeah. Let's do it.
OLEG:
I'm talking with Dan Clark. And after so many years, Dan, welcome back to FSCast.
DAN CLARK:
Thank you, Oleg. It's good to be here with you.
OLEG:
Can you remember how many years ago it was that you were last on FScast?
DAN:
I would say it probably was about three or four years at least. I think Glen Gordon was the one who did the last interview with me.
OLEG:
And how many years ago was that that you joined Henter-Joyce?
DAN:
I joined Henter-Joyce back in 1995.
OLEG:
Let's move even further back in time. I'm in Germany, and you used to live in Germany, how come?
DAN:
That's correct. My father was in the United States Air Force and I was actually born at an Air Force base in Louisiana, north Louisiana. And then after a couple of years, my father was transferred to Newfoundland. So, I attended kindergarten and first grade in Newfoundland. After that, we moved to Mississippi to another air base, and then from there after a few years we moved to Simbach, Germany, which is near Kaiserslautern in Germany, and I attended the eighth grade in junior high in Simbach and the ninth grade went into freshman in high school in Kaiserslautern High School.
OLEG:
You are totally sighted, you have full vision and you ended up in the area of blindness technology. But before that you were in, what was that, restaurant business, something else?
DAN:
Yeah. A lot of people may not realize that I had been in the restaurant, or hospitality industry, as they call it, for many years before I got even into computers. And it was back in the day when computers were just coming on the scene for businesses. And I worked at several different restaurant companies including Shoney's and Pizza Hut and some of the others that people here may know of. They had a point of sale system based on Lotus 1-2-3.
OLEG:
And just in case somebody doesn't know, Lotus 1-2-3 was like a database program, or was it spreadsheet, or was it something in between?
DAN:
It was basically the same thing as what Excel is now. Excel and Lotus 1-2-3 were competitors. Lotus 1-2-3 had the market share initially, and then Excel came out and took that market share away. But in the evenings, I was working on the manual with Lotus 1-2-3 and learning how to use it. And that real-world experience actually translated directly into the training materials for Microsoft Excel. We had a series called Introduction to Microsoft Excel 2016. And I created a spreadsheet, a very simplified spreadsheet which we could use to track food costs in the examples. It was called Restaurant Supply Sample Spreadsheet.
OLEG:
What made you move out of restaurant business and into computers, and not just any computers but blindness related technology.
DAN:
The company that I worked for, the last company in the restaurant business, was that pizza company, and they had a small mom and pop organization with four stores and reorganized and laid me off. And I thought, well, this is crazy. I've been in the restaurant business for a number of years and I can bounce around from one place to another quite easily, but that experience with the computer had fascinated me. So I got into the computer business and eventually went to work for a company called CompuAdd. And from CompuAdd, I became a store manager in Tulsa. And then CompuAdd went bankrupt and I started my own business out of Sand Springs, Oklahoma called Sooner Software and Consulting. Initially, that business was geared towards the clients that came into CompuAdd. But a man came into that store before it closed who had low vision. He was a ZoomText user back in the early days of ZoomText and asked me about Arkenstone and if it would work if he bought a computer from me. And I said, "I don't even know what Arkenstone is." His answer was, "Well, the people from Arkenstone are coming to Tulsa for a demo. Why don't you come check it out?" I did. And long story short, when that company that I was working for went bankrupt and I started my own business, after a year or so in business, I decided to make the change to working only with people who were blind or visually impaired and ended up going to the first ever Arkenstone dealer meeting, and that was where I first met Ted Henter.
OLEG:
Did he impress you as an innovator? Did you see something special then with that guy and that company, or was that just yet another business person?
DAN:
No. I had already been interested in Ted. I don't know if we had spoken before, but in my Sooner Software business, I started becoming active in the community and also reaching out to the various vendors. So, I reached out to at the time GW Micro and Henter-Joyce to ask about the possibility of becoming a dealer. In the meantime, the Arkenstone meeting came up, so my wife and I attended that. But prior to that, I had talked to Eric by email and I had been using JAWS for DOS and JAWS for Windows when it first came out with great pleasure.
OLEG:
You were initially working in sales, and you started with Henter-Joyce, what was your work then?
DAN:
Well, when I started I was pretty much doing the same thing that Eric Damery was doing. And we had another guy, Jim Watson, who was in sales. And the three of us would go around the country demonstrating JAWS for Windows to sighted folks, mostly at the various state or federal government agencies, schools, things like that. And I would set up my laptop with the screen facing the audience usually around a conference table, hook up a pair of powered speakers and a USB keyboard and on the other side of the monitor there where I couldn't see it. And then I'd proceed to show them just like Eric and Jim would do, how anyone could use a computer even without having to see it. And so, in order to get these people to purchase JAWS, we had to basically train them and show them how people could use a computer with JAWS and that it could be done.
OLEG:
And then somehow, gradually you moved into training.
DAN:
The thing that changed really was after several years with sales and Henter-Joyce, the companies merged. There was a merger that created Freedom Scientific, the merger of Arkenstone, Blazie Engineering and Henter-Joyce. And during that time, I transferred from the sales position and into the training department.
OLEG:
When we talk about blind and sighted people using the computer, we realize there are some fundamental differences. And the one that first comes to mind is of course a blind person will be using the keyboard, although not every sighted person, but many of them will be using the mouse. That's normal. I mean we talk about this a lot. But with you having experience both as a sighted computer user and a trainer of blind computer users, what are some other differences? What is there that we probably do not quite readily recognize about the blind person using a computer? Now, for example, if I'm sighted and I'm trying to show a blind person something that has to do with computer usage, I would need to know something. I would need to understand something. What is it?
DAN:
I laugh because that is such a great question, Oleg. The fact that sighted people can look at a screen doesn't mean that they necessarily see everything or even care to see everything. One of the things that I try to do when I'm training people and going back to the training thing, we would go out on the road after I went into the training department and do training for sighted people, sighted instructors who are going back to train more people who are blind. So, we do have to teach that concept to a sighted person that what you see on the screen doesn't necessarily translate to where the focus is. And so, the focus is the biggest thing that most sighted people don't quite grasp, I think. Let's say you've got a browser window up on the screen, and all of a sudden focus shifts down to the taskbar. Well, the sighted user looking at the screen will say, "Oh, the browser is open, just click here." And they'll say, click there. But the point is someone who's sitting next to them using JAWS, the focus could be elsewhere. So, I think having a sighted person understand where the focus is and how that translates into understanding the webpage or the document or whatever it might be, that's a big issue.
OLEG:
And approaching this from the other side, when we as blind or visually impaired computer users communicate with the sighted users, is there anything you could give us as an advice when we talk to sighted individuals that we should be aware of?
DAN:
The first thing obviously is that the mouse may not be usable, the physical mouse, and so therefore that means that we rely on the keyboard, and having the ability to move to a control with the keyboard is paramount.
OLEG:
What are the qualities that are required from a good access technology trainer?
DAN:
Well, I think patience and persistence are definitely good qualities, and you have to have the ability to, I think, give people real life examples and exercises if you're doing training. Some of the things that you want to do is to make sure that your steps for your instructions are easily reproducible. They provide positive reinforcement as the student or the participant follows along on their own device. I'll give you a quick example. Let's say you open up a dialog box in some application, and the focus is in a certain spot, which it usually is. And there's a certain place where you have to go in that dialog box. It might be two or three tab spaces to get to it. And let's say the instructor doesn't take the time to explore that dialog box the first time. They just press the tab key multiple times and not even maybe let the synthesizer speak the string of text, but just go tab, tab, tab.
OLEG:
You just describe myself. That's what I do sometimes.
DAN:
So, the thing is you want to, especially the first time, I like to give an overview of what the screen looks like. Is this thing that we're tabbing through, is it the top navigation area? Is it the sidebar? Is it the footer? Is it the main region? And as you're going along, you just want to make sure that you let people in that dialog box example the first time at least tab through and say, this is the two field, this is the from field or whatever it might be. That's a very simplified example. But because those people who are doing this on their own later when they pull up the dialog box, they don't know necessarily if you press tab five times or six times or 10 times to get where you were going. So, even though it may seem tedious for you as a trainer the first time around, it's a good idea to go through every control.
OLEG:
Your trainings have one quality of which I'm thinking right now, and I'm wondering if this just happened or whether that's something that was deliberately arranged. And that is you somehow structure your training so that you include the important stuff, and it does not become outdated too quick. So, have you had experiences where things change and your training is no longer relevant? And is there anything you can build into the training so that at least to some point, it will remain relevant even through the interface changes?
DAN:
Yeah. And that's a good point. The ability to transcend upgrades is a big thing for your training. So, if the subject matter changes, does that upgrade break your training? That's exactly what you're talking about. Do you have, for example, non-relevant dates or historical items that are included that might make your training materials appear outdated sooner than later? One of the things that I did in the JAWS basic training the last go around was to try, and this happens over and over again as you use products like JAWS. JAWS will say JAWS 2021 or JAWS 2024. And so, I would literally edit out, many times I would edit out the 2024 or the 2021 and just have the synthesizer say JAWS for example. So, anytime you have those dates or something like that that you can remove and keep the basic premise of the training on an even keel, it makes sense, because otherwise you're going to have to redo it anyway.
OLEG:
But that means that for every hour of training you produce, there's got to be X hours of preparation and then Y hours of editing. So, what are the values of X and Y there?
DAN:
X for the preparation, is obvious to me, is the longest period of time, because before I even begin to do a recording, I start with an outline and come up with a process of how I would go through that particular application, or that task, let's say. And then I would begin to flesh out the documentation and talk about why people would want to do this, what are the benefits of the training and how is it going to help you? And then going on to verifying that it all works with the keyboard and with JAWS. And at some point, after usually let's say a couple of months of work, I'll have a document that's close to a recording stage, not quite. Then what I'll do is I'll go through that document step by step just as if I were teaching it, and I'll write down and use JAWS Speech History, for example, to get what JAWS says and put that into the transcript that I'm working on. So, once all of that is done, everything should work step-by-step seamlessly. And when it does, then I go to the recording studio, which I have a little recording studio, just a small mixer and things like that here in my home. So, several months usually for a project like that, and then the recording starts. And usually that's for me another, this would be the Y in your equation, I guess, that is usually at least another six to eight weeks, sometimes longer depending on technical issues and things like that. So, my average tutorial, let's say for 15 to 30 minutes, might take a total of six months to complete.
OLEG:
When you're in the studio, are you actually reading from that document? What's the ratio between reading and improvisation& And if improvisation, can you say it's a prepared improvisation?
DAN:
Oh, definitely prepared improvisation if there is any. Most of the time as I said, when I get to that point, I have a printout that I use. The point is that I go through when I do the recording and I follow that transcript that I've created verbatim. And also, when the end user is looking at it, they're going to be following that step-by-step transcript. So, it has to match.
OLEG:
You have always given me the impression of a very quiet and sometimes even reserved individual. Have you ever been frustrated in your trainings of things going wrong, software not working, or computer malfunctioning or a user or trainee failing to understand something that should be quite obvious? If you have been frustrated, then what do you do about it?
DAN:
Yeah. I have been frustrated over the course of the things that you mentioned. So, I think one of the worst frustrations I had one time was when I was in the recording studio with Eric Damery doing a what's new recording or something for JAWS and forgot to unmute his microphone for the entire session. So, yeah, anything can happen to someone who's doing the recordings, but when you get into this classroom, there are people who don't quite process things the same way as everyone else, let's say. And one person might have a little bit more difficulty with understanding JAWS speech. If you're in a classroom with JAWS, you have a headset perhaps listening to JAWS, and you have also the instructor to listen to, there are quite a few times when people cannot process both at the same time. And so, you have to be really patient walking around the room to help those people who don't process things quite as quickly or who didn't quite understand what JAWS said or what the instructor said. And then on the other hand, you have those students who, Poof, I'm blowing through this material and I'm sitting here bored, now I'm waiting for you instructor. So, you have both sides of it.
OLEG:
I was talking to a friend of mine who is also an instructor, and he said, "It's none of my business to motivate people to learn. I will work with those people who are motivated already." At that point, I asked him, "Is this part of your job to create the motivation or to make it stronger if it's weak?" His answer was no. Would you agree, would you disagree?
DAN:
I think I would disagree respectfully on that. The thing is that you can take someone who's not interested in pretty much any subject. And if you present it to them in the proper manner, it will lead them to explore that subject perhaps a little further. It's a matter of, in that case, perhaps maybe the instructor's enthusiasm might help.
OLEG:
It is sometimes said that you are never too old to learn, but is there anything you need to take into account when you train people who are in their advanced years?
DAN:
I agree with you. I think you're never too old to learn, but when you are dealing with some people in their advanced years, even if they've got a lot of computer experience from earlier, if they're having any problems with cognitive decline or aging, just forgetfulness, you may have to come up with some alternate methods for training. Maybe additional training materials might help. Being patient with them definitely helps. When I was a dealer, for example, and I would go to visit one of my clients who was using an Arkenstone device, and this woman was in an assisted living facility and she had problems with memory. So, what I did is with the keypad that came with the Arkenstone device, you could press the scan key and the read key and this key in that key, but she would get very confused with that. So, what I ended up doing was creating a flip chart with color codes for the different keys, and I would say, "If you want to scan something, you press the green button." I had her pad coded with those little stickers with dots, green dot, blue dot yellow dot, things like that. So, for her, doing some basic tasks was able to be accomplished more easily because she couldn't remember the keystrokes. Even looking at the keypad, she could flip to her little chart and look at the color combination that I told her to press and do what she wanted to do. So, I think being creative and being willing to go beyond to try and help people makes a big difference in terms of making a good trainer.
OLEG:
You left Freedom Scientific a few years ago, but you never left training, and you never left the field of access technology. You got your own company now. Can you tell us all a few words about what's happening, what you're doing?
DAN:
The business that I created is called DSurf, which stands for the digital surf. The tagline for my website in business is dSurf, the digital surf for accessibility. And I'm fortunate to have been able to work for the past few years part-time as an independent consultant for a legal firm doing website accessibility audits with JAWS. So, I test webpages part-time when I get a chance and when they have the opportunity. Very, very limited, but it does help. And doing that has helped me to pay for my business so that I can give myself a website where I can post the training materials and things that I do. So, as you noted, I have created a business and on that dSurf website, there's a training page. And I currently have training for JAWS, including some very basic stuff about how I like to set JAWS for my preferences and settings, things like decreasing the verbosity and turning off the spelling buzzer sound and just different things that I prefer. And I also have some training on Windows 11. And I just recently posted this latest training on Gmail labels using the keyboard. The thing about it is that it gives me the ability to present the training materials and give people the resources that they need. So, for example, when I go to a lesson, I can not only view the information on YouTube, because I have a YouTube video, there'll be a lesson plan and a vocabulary list and MP3 file, a transcript and sometimes more. It just depends on what's available for each lesson. But the business that I'm doing right now is basically providing a place for me to give my training materials a place to live.
OLEG:
Do you do consulting, if somebody wanted to get a few hours of training from you, would that be possible?
DAN:
Right now, I don't do individual or one-on-one training, but there's always the option for me to do classroom training or to visit and do training at various places in a group environment, let's say. And that would be something that people could reach out and discuss. But in terms of individual training, the only thing I'm interested in doing right now is something that would be postable on my website that everyone could use. And I am open to suggestions. The most recent lesson that I did, Gmail labels with JAWS from the keyboard, was suggested to me by a guy out on my YouTube channel.
OLEG:
So, your website address is?
DAN:
OLEG:
And how do you find your YouTube channel?
DAN:
You can find me on YouTube by just reaching out and looking for my handle on YouTube @dsurfdan.
OLEG:
We're now in Christmas and New Year's season. Is there a song that will be playing in your house or a movie that you will certainly be watching?
DAN:
I think the song that comes to mind is, I don't know the title of it because I'm not so good with those kinds of things, but It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year.
OLEG:
Thank you, Dan.
DAN:
Thank you, Oleg. It was very good talking to you again.
OLEG:
And Merry Christmas.
DAN:
Merry Christmas to you as well, and Happy New Year.
OLEG:
Aira is a household name in the blindness community and has been so for around 10 years. My guest today, Everette Bacon knows a lot more about Aira than I guess any of us does. Everette, welcome to FSCast.
EVERETTE BACON:
Thank you for having me. You're exactly right. We're going to have our 10th anniversary coming up in January of next year, which is pretty exciting.
OLEG:
We'll be talking more about Aira, but let me ask you a bit of a personal question. So, are you blind or are you sighted?
EVERETTE:
I am completely blind. I started out growing up with partial vision. I have an eye condition cone-rod dystrophy. It's very hereditary. It goes back some 13 generations on my mom's side of the family. And so, I had partial vision growing up until I got into my late 30s, early 40s is the last time I really remember seeing anything. And I'm 54 now, so I've been blind for going on 12, 13 years now.
OLEG:
And professionally, have you been involved with access technology?
EVERETTE:
I came onto Aira in June of 2023. Before that, for 18 years, I had worked as the access technology specialist for the Utah Division of Services for the Blind. So, I would review access technology, make recommendations to customers, as well as rehabilitation counselors. I did a lot of demonstrations and a lot of presentations. And then at some point, I got promoted to supervisor level and supervised a staff of seven and still continued to do the access technology as part of it.
OLEG:
So, you know the customer-facing side of access technology quite well as a customer, as a professional. But when did you come to know Aira as a user or as an explorer?
EVERETTE:
In 2015 in Orlando at the National Federation of the Blind Convention, Aira first came on in the exhibit hall and I got a chance to try it. At that time, there were a lot of wires involved and you couldn't walk very far because the signal was very weak, but it was my first time to try it. And I'm the kind of person, I don't really enjoy walking with a sighted guide. I will when I need to go through the airport with a sighted guide, or going to the mall or something like that. I will when I need to, but I much more prefer walking independently. And Aira really, it was an awesome way for me to do that again, where I could walk independently, get visual information, but on my terms.
And so, I ended up becoming a customer of theirs the next year when they started opening up the service to everyone. And I have been a paying explorer ever since. Even though I work for Aira, I still have my paid subscription account, and I still pay for it and I share it with my mom. And yeah. So, I'm a big believer in the product and think we do some great things.
OLEG:
Aira has been undergoing some major changes since 2020, and those changes have to do with how the service works and how it's structured. Talk to me about those.
EVERETTE:
When Aira first started, it was what they consider a business to customer or B2C model. This was before I started, but Aira really tried to work on building their customer base and building lots of explorers and in having explorers pay a subscription, whatever plan they wanted to.
And that's what the model was based on. We had some venture capital funding that allowed us to really do some great things, whether we were at the Super Bowl showing a person getting audio description of the Super Bowl game or whether we were doing the Black Eyed Peas concert with APL at the NFB convention. Lots of things like that. It allowed us to do a lot of neat things to get excitement about Aira. But let's be frank. There are some blind people that can afford to have a subscription for Aira, but there are many, many others that can't. And we recognized that. In 2020, we had to reorganize. Our venture capital funding ended. We reorganized as a company, and we changed the model from B2C to B2B recognizing that blind explorers wanted to use Aira, they just couldn't afford it. So, our whole thought process was to create as many access partners that would pay for the service whenever a blind individual was using it on the premises or online or whatever. So, for example, we have great access partners like Target and Starbucks and Walmart, and we're very excited about those partnerships. And now that blind people can use the product whenever they're at a Walmart for free or if they go to walmart.com, they can use Aira to help them shop. And so, that's how we changed our business model. We were not profitable for a couple of years, but we are profitable now and we're doing very well as a company. And I'm really excited about the growth that we're showing. We just announced a partnership with JPMorgan Chase Bank. And Aira is now available for free at every JPMorgan Chase across the United States, which is some 10,000 locations. And you can also use it atchase.com.
OLEG:
Which countries is Aira currently available? And am I correct assuming it's only the English-speaking world at this time?
EVERETTE:
That is correct. We are primarily an English-speaking company. We do have some Spanish-speaking visual interpreters, and your call can be routed to a Spanish-speaking visual interpreter upon request. We are looking to incorporate French and German, but we're not there yet. So, look for more things in the future as we expand. But currently right now, primarily English and a little bit of Spanish.
OLEG:
Do you actually get feedback from people who are using your service in English but still outside English-speaking countries?
EVERETTE:
We definitely get feedback from explorers all over the world. It definitely is more in the English-speaking countries, but definitely still occurs in other countries. And our visual interpreters, they are very agile. They're able to quickly pull up a Google Translate when they need to or pull up some kind of document that might help them with transcription. And they're really great at what they do and they very much want to make sure that the explorer is getting a great service and a great product whenever the explorer calls. And I think we continue to grow and expand and make explorers all across the world happy.
OLEG:
And coming back to partnerships, there are more and more of them. And one reason why we had invited you here on FSCast is a new partnership that Aira now has with Vispero. Can you talk more about that?
EVERETTE:
Sure. So, the newest partnership with Vispero… We've had several partnerships with Freedom Scientific…
OLEG:
Yeah. Let's talk about the older ones first.
EVERETTE:
Yeah. Okay. So, the older one actually that is still ongoing is our Aira job accommodation, with Freedom Scientific. If someone is wanting to get assistance with going back to work, Freedom Scientific helps partners with that. All of our agents have the ability to have JAWS on their computer. And while they may not be JAWS-certified or trained in JAWS, they have some knowledge of how JAWS works. And so, when an explorer needs to call after hours where Freedom Scientific or Vispero is not open and there's no one on the help desk to be there for them, our agents can pick up the Slack and can assist them in basic JAWS remediation and basic JAWS assistance. That partnership has been going on for several years. We're very proud of that. And we note customer's accounts when they call in and they need assistance. And if we're not able to find the answer, we will send the question on to Vispero. We're really proud of the fact that we think we can get explorers the assistance they need with whatever JAWS or computer issue they might be having at a particular moment.
OLEG:
Another type of partnership has to do with accessing websites that have accessibility issues. And I must confess, until very recently, I wasn't aware that you could use Aira on your computer. I mean, to me, Aira is pretty much an app that you have on the phone. Talk to me about how a registered Aira Explorer can use your service from the computer.
EVERETTE:
We have a web-based product that we're very proud of, Explorer.aira.io, and that will take you to a page that will look very familiar. It's the login page for your Aira Explorer account. You put in your username and password, or you can log in through Google or Apple if that's easier for you, and you can log in and now you will have access to your entire account on your computer. Actually it's one of the number one requests from our explorers to our Aira visual interpreters is to help them with a web problem that they're having, whether it's an inaccessible website or some other issue on their computer. So, what many explorers will do, they will now share their screen with the Aira agent. After they've made the call, they get hold of the Aira agent and they tell the Aira agent they want to share their screen and they can use a myriad of products from TeamViewer to Microsoft Quick Assist, to RIM, and you can use those products, and the agents will now have the ability to have control of your computer, and you can tell them where you have experienced an inaccessible website, like an unlabeled button or something that you weren't able to do on the web because it was inaccessible. And our partnership with the Vispero, which I'm really excited about, is we are tracking that data and we are sharing the websites that are inaccessible or are broken, we're sharing that information with TPGI so they can work on remediation with the companies that are producing the inaccessible websites, and TPGI can offer their services to help get the websites accessible. We don't share any of the explorer data. We just share which website it is and if we can any notes on the website where the problem was occurring. But rest assured, none of the explorer information is being shared when we do that with TPGI. We think it's a fabulous partnership. We've been wanting to do this for quite some time, because we knew we had this data. We know these websites are inaccessible because we've seen it first hand with our explorers communicating this information to us, and we just think it's a great way to help TPGI and other companies know what is wrong with their websites, and maybe TPGI can help them fix it.
OLEG:
And of course, TPGI is a Vispero company that provides accessibility training and consulting. Well, let me take this to somewhat of a personal level. Could you please share with me a use case where you might want to go to Aira and ask for help on a website, what would that be?
EVERETTE:
Well, let's think about an extremely busy website like CNN.com, or maybe like Domino's Pizza that has had some issues with accessibility in the past, and those sites are quite busy. There's a lot of information. Some of it is accessible, some of it is not. You can bounce around headings and some of it will read to you, but there are definitely images that don't read to you. There are unlabeled buttons, unlabeled graphics, and blind people want to access those websites like anybody else and get the work that they want to get done on those websites like anybody else. And so, Aira is a great tool that allows blind people to get access to that immediately, but we can notify these companies about problems they're having through the partnership with Vispero and TPGI. And from there, maybe we can get more websites to be accessible rather than problematic.
OLEG:
How about filling out a form where some of the fields do not read, or finding a date on the calendar, or making a hotel booking again where some of the fields might read, but you're not certain whether what they do read is correct. Would Aira be able to help with that?
EVERETTE:
Of course. Aira will help you with any kind of situation on the web, and especially if you're sharing your screen with them, the agents can then take over. But if you want to demonstrate to the agent where the problem is with JAWS so the agent can take notes of that, the agents will do that.
OLEG:
As an explorer, do I need to take the initiative and ask the agent to pass the information on to TPGI? Or is that done, shall I say, automatically?
EVERETTE:
It's actually done automatically, but if you have some specific notes that you want the agent to record, they will do that for you. Again, we're not going to share any personal information, so we're not going to share your name, any of your explorer data or anything like that. But if there's some specific thing you're pointing out like this form, I couldn't get the edit field for the date filled out, it wasn't letting me do that accurately or something similar of that nature, the agents can take those notes down and then continue to pass it on.
OLEG:
And to make something very clear: Aira or TPGI are not responsible for actually fixing the website. It's up to that website's developer. All we do is pass the information along, and TPGI will be able to present the information in the best way possible. Is that correct?
EVERETTE:
That is very correct. And we know that TPGI can take that information from our Aira agents and accurately give that information to web developers for different companies. They know exactly the lingo, the language that web developers speak, and so yeah, that's why we wanted to partner with Vispero and TPGI for that specific reason.
OLEG:
You are, and we are actually in a very difficult world right now. That's a world of competition. I mean, we all love competition. It's a driving force, but with other services coming, with other possibilities coming, would you say you are rather optimistic or pessimistic about Aira's future in the immediate perspective?
EVERETTE:
Oh, I'm very optimistic. And just so you're aware, there is no other service out there where a visual interpreter is trained to assist you with whatever issue you might have in giving you access to visual information. There are other services out there that have volunteers, and those are great services, and I have great friends that work for those companies. I don't see them as competing. I see both of us offer a specific service and you as the blind user, you get to decide when it's better to use Aira and the trained visual interpreters, and when it's better to use maybe a volunteer. And that's what's cool. That's a great world that we're living in right now, that we have more options to us. So, I'm very optimistic. I don't see other companies as competitors. I see us all as equal in the space, and we're all trying to provide the most outstanding service we can provide with what we have.
(Note: During the previous response, there were two dogs barking in the background).
OLEG:
By the way, what was that dog's name, and can you tell me more about him or her?
EVERETTE:
I apologize. Yeah.
OLEG:
There's no need to apologize. Not at all. That's wonderful.
EVERETTE:
Yeah. I have a Bichon Frise, his name is Finnegan. That was the higher pitched one. The lower pitched one is a Schnauzer and her name is Midnight. And yeah, I got a package delivered and they went nuts.
OLEG:
Wow. It's fantastic to be talking to you Everette and hearing from you. My only wish is that Aira would go more international. You said that's coming and we hope there'll be more partnerships. And I know there are international listeners here on FSCast, and some of them work for larger blindness organizations in their countries. Is there a way they could reach out to Aira and express their interest and also express the potential for cooperation?
EVERETTE:
Oh, sure. Our customer care team works on the Pacific Time zone 6:00 AM. to 6:00 PM. And they answer calls and emails. You can email them. That's the easiest way. It's support@aira.io. They'll definitely pass on any information, leads, connections you might have about potential partners. They will definitely take that information, usually passing it on to our great sales team. And sometimes I get involved as well. And we definitely want our international explorers, and really explorers anywhere, if there's a place they would like to have or see as an access partner, let us know because the more of that information we have, the better we can go reach out to those potential access partners and make them real access partners.
OLEG:
I started with a personal question today. I want to end with somewhat of a personal question here as well. Sometimes I really feel bad about calling an Aira agent, because I realize where the agent is, it might be 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. Is it okay to call at odd hours, like early morning or late-night hours?
EVERETTE:
You should absolutely call at any day or night, any holiday. We are open 24/7. We have visual interpreters scheduled throughout the day and throughout the night, on holidays, on weekends. Obviously, we have to forecast the demand. And so, if we are forecasting our scheduling based on what our business forecast gives us, we might schedule less to be available at the overnight hours. But you should feel confident to use the service whenever you would like to use it, not even when you need it, but when you would like to use it, because we find that there are so many explorers out there that they don't think about, "Hey, I could get Aira to read this for me, or hey, I could get an agent to look at this for me, or I could get an agent to do something else and give me information, or it might be dark outside." So, all of that is to say that yes, please feel free to call and use the service whenever you want to use it. We are open and available.
OLEG:
Thank you, Everette, for giving us your time, and we really look forward to working together.
EVERETTE:
Thank you, Oleg. Happy holidays to you and all of your listeners.
ELIZABETH:
That was Everette Bacon with Aira. And shall we conclude for this episode?
OLEG:
Well, I'm sorry to say yes, but I'm also happy to say yes because we're moving right into the holiday season with both Christmas and New Year. So, yes, we've got to conclude, but we hope to see you next month. By the way, any webinars from the training department in January?
ELIZABETH: We are going to be celebrating Braille Literacy month, so we have a lot coming up. We are actually going to be providing some power tips in a webinar on using JAWS and braille, and that's coming up in January. And then we have a brand new webinar in February on the new Outlook in JAWS.
OLEG:
And braille is the key topic of our FSCast for January. I know exactly who is going to be interviewed, but I'm not going to reveal this for now. I'll just tell you it's a blind musician. Is that intriguing, Elizabeth?
ELIZABETH:
Oh, I think so. I don't even know who it's going to be, so this'll be good.
OLEG:
We'll be looking forward to that. And we're also looking forward to your emails both at fscast.vispero.com and the training department address, which is?
ELIZABETH:
Training@vispero.com.
OLEG:
But for now, from Elizabeth Whitaker and Oleg Shevkun and all of us here at Vispero, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and see y'all in January.
ELIZABETH:
Bye.