LARRY GASSMAN: On FSCast 166 this time we’ll talk about CSUN, which is just around the corner. We’ll preview our next training webinar coming up in February, and Eric Damery will be with us again to talk about the new Add/Remove Voices plus Autocorrect in Microsoft Word and Outlook 365. And John and I will demonstrate how both of those new features work on this edition of FSCast 166.
Hi, everybody. Larry and John Gassman on FSCast. Hope your January was a good one. And let’s kind of dive into what we’re going to be doing on this particular program. And we have lots to talk about. Before we do anything, we want to let you know how you can reach the podcast. You can do that in a couple of ways. You can email email@example.com. Again, that’s F-S-C-A-S-T at V-I-S-P-E-R-O dot com. Or also by way of the listener line, and that’s (727) 803-8000 and extension 1010.
For those of you who download FSCast from a podcast client, you may not know that on the actual Freedom Scientific website under FSCast there’s a new feature that began in January. And that is literally a translation document of the FSCast podcast. I think it’s a PDF. But it’s literally a complete translation of the podcast. So this is especially valuable for those who might be deafblind and may not be able to hear well the speech. In this situation, you can go download the translation. It’s really very, very well done. So take a look at that when you have an opportunity.
I want to remind you that the Freedom Scientific training webinars are back and occur twice each month. All of the training webinars are now free, and that’s great news. The first one was in January, discussing what they hope to do in the next few months. The first actual topic to be discussed will be on February 7; so if you are listening to this before that time, you still have time to sign up for “Getting to Know JAWS,” which really concerns an introductory look at the JAWS screen reader, and they teach you some basic commands. All of that on February 7, noon Eastern time in the United States. If you’d like to register for this one or several of the other ones that are up there, you can go to www.freedomscientific.com/training and look for the Free Webinars link. And that’ll take you through a form that you fill out, and you will receive an email when you finish filling out that particular form.
JOHN GASSMAN: We are in early February, and we’re just a few weeks away from the 34th CSUN Conference. And this is where everybody in the world with regard to assistive technology gathers to show off new products and especially a new hotel now this year, as well. For the last eight years we were in San Diego, and beginning this year we’re at the Anaheim Marriott in Southern California and looking forward to it. It should be a great place to spend a few days. The hotel happenings are all basically on the first floor, and that includes all the presentation rooms, as well as the exhibit hall. And we’ll run through the various presentations having to do with Vispero and tell you about the Exhibit Hall schedule, as well.
We will quickly chronicle some of the events happening at the suite in Anaheim at CSUN. But if you’d like to take a look for yourself, to actually go up to the web page to find out more information about JAWS, you can go to www.freedomscientific.com. Do JAWSKEY+F7 to go to the Links List dialog box. Press E until you hear Events. Wait till that page loads, and then do a JAWS Find for CSUN. And that should take you to the page where you can learn more about the various products at CSUN.
It all begins really on March 11 and 12 with the pre-conference workshops. But on the 13th of March, the assistive technology vendors gather, and that’s when all the presentations and exhibit halls begin. Vispero will be beginning on March 13th with their 40-minute presentations, and that will include plenty of time for you to ask questions, as well.
So let’s talk about Wednesday, March 13. Presentations begin at 9:00 a.m. in the Platinum Ballroom #4, and that’s on the first floor, with a presentation called “Roads Less Traveled: When to Detour from Standards to Reach Accessible UX.” At 10:00, “A Strategy for Inclusive Accessibility Testing for Novices and Experts.” Next hour, at 11:00, we’ll have Eric Damery presenting his very popular “What’s New in JAWS for Windows.” This time, of course, Jaws 2019.
Around noon, of course, everything pretty much stops for lunch. And then at 1:20, “Roll-based Challenges of Implementing Accessibility Remediation.” At 2:20, “Pay As You Go: Annual Software Licensing Options” with Miguel Abdo. At 3:20, “Mitigating Your Legal Risk for Web and Mobile Accessibility.” And, finally, at 4:20 on that first day, “What Is Fusion and the Eight Things You Must Know” with Eric Damery.
On Thursday, March 14th at 10:00 we’ll begin with “Fusion, JAWS, and ZoomText: Let’s Learn and Connect.” And that is featuring Rachel Buchanan, who of course is one of the trainers at Vispero, and you may also have heard her on one of the most recent webinars. At 11:00 a.m. “Many Devices, One Standard: Mobile Accessibility with WCAG 2.1.” At 1:20 p.m., “What’s New in ZoomText 2019” with Eric Damery. At 2:20, “Beyond Web Accessibility: Mobile Apps, Apple TV, and Other Emerging Devices.” At 3:20, “It’s All About Data: New Methods and Tools for Accessibility.” And finally on that Thursday there’s a panel on “Challenges and Successes of Building an Accessibility Program.”
On the final day of the conference, that would be Friday the 15th at 9:00 a.m., “Accessibility with People with Disabilities Through Effective User Research.” At 10:00 a.m., “Vispero and Education: Affordable Software for Students.” At 11:00 a.m., “Evaluating Organizational Readiness for Accessibility and Digital Strategy.” At 1:20, “A Web of Anxiety: Accessibility for People with Anxiety and Panic Disorders.”
Now let’s talk a little bit about exhibitors. Vispero will have four booths this year, and that’ll give everybody an opportunity to visit the booths and get hands-on with the various products that are available. Vispero will be in Booths 503, 603, 703, and 409. The entire Exhibitors Hall begins on Wednesday, March 13th, and the hall opens at noon a little later that day, from noon until 7:00 p.m. All times, of course, are California West Coast times. On Thursday, March 14th, and also again on the 15th, the exhibit activities will begin at 9:30 in the morning and conclude at 5:30 p.m.
Now, if you want to follow the conference on Facebook or Twitter, maybe you’re back in your room, and you haven’t had enough, and you just want to read what everybody else is saying, you can do that. On Facebook the hashtag is all caps, capital letters, and it’s CSUN and then the numbers one nine. On Twitter, if you’re following the activities, it is #CSUNATC. Oh, and remember, of course, on the keyboard, that number is SHIFT+3. You can also share your posts on Facebook, and lots of different announcements will be made throughout the conference as things happen.
LARRY: We’re back with Eric Damery in February, and we have some great news to share with regard to Voices. We all hear voices. Most of us have heard Eloquence for years with JAWS. We have had some choices over the years, but not all of us have used those voices. And now you’re going to get a chance to do that. Vocalizer Expressive has been a series of voices we’ve had for quite a while now, but there have been some changes to those voices, and they will also extend into JAWS, into Fusion, into ZoomText, as well. And to kind of demonstrate and talk about some of those voices we have Eric with us again. Eric, welcome back to FSCast.
ERIC DAMERY: It’s good to be back with you, Larry. And I am excited to talk about Vocalizer Expressive and some of the new solutions or ways people will have now to get these on their computer and be able to experience them. And we’ve talked about it. Last fall before the release I explained that this would be coming. It didn’t make it in the first initial release last fall. But here we are, the end of January’s release came out, and the feature is there. People can try it.
I think what I’d like to do is try and talk through how it works, why it works this way, and then maybe we’ll have you do a demonstration of it. And I think that’ll help people be able to go in and try it out. They can follow along with how it sounds on your computer, and they’ll know if they’ve done it right.
So the first step is where do I go to find this new choice? And if somebody goes into the JAWS window and goes to the Options menu, under Options they’ll find Voices. And if you open that Voices, there’s always been a choice called Voice Adjustment. There’s been a Select a Profile, and there’s a new choice at the bottom of that list called Add/Remove Voices. So think of it like the Control Panel where you could add and remove things on your computer.
So if somebody goes in and chooses that Add/Remove Voices..., they’ll land in a new utility, feels like a dialog box. And this is a place where you can experience and find the different Vocalizer Expressive premium voices that you would like to install and try and use on your computer. The first thing you land in is a Select a Language combo box, and it’ll default to English. But if you speak a different language or want to see the voices in other languages, you can switch the language right there.
The next control is a multi-select list box of all of the premium voices available to everybody to be able to download for whatever language that combo box is set at. So if it’s in English, you’ll find voices in that list like Alison and Ava and Daniel and Fiona. Many of them are from different dialects. So it’s not all the English U.S. voices. You’ll also find the British, Scottish, Australian, and so forth. And you move through the list. And when you’re focused on a voice, if you want to listen to how it sounds, there’s actually a Play Sample button right in the dialog box. And from the list, if you just do ALT+P, it’ll click that button for you and let you hear the sample of that particular voice. And then you can decide, I think I’ll get that one, hit the SPACEBAR on it to select it, move to the next one. And you can select as many out of the list that you would like to install, keeping in mind that the more you select, the longer the download and install will be.
So experiment. Try one voice out. Pick one that you like. Try the sample. If you enjoy it, TAB forward a couple times. You’ll find an Install Selected Voices button, and you press SPACEBAR on that, and off it goes. It’ll download the voice. It’ll get it installed. And it even sets up a voice profile on your computer, in your JAWS product, with that name associated with it. So if you picked Daniel, for instance, you’ll now have a Daniel profile after you’re done.
Now, you may have to restart JAWS. It’ll give you a message if you do. After you’ve installed the voice, you’d restart JAWS, and then you can just look in the Select a Voice Profile dialog box, which is the JAWSKEY+CTRL+S. If you haven’t used that before, try that out. INSERT+CTRL+S puts you in a list of all the voice profiles you currently have. And if you install Daniel, if you hit the letter D, you’ll find the Daniel profile. Press ENTER, and now you’re in the Daniel voice. And there it is. And you can use the same dialog to jump back to Eloquence if you want to at any time. So you never even have to go back in the menu system. Just use that dialog to switch.
Larry, maybe you’ll demonstrate one of my favorite keystrokes, and I use it all the time, and that’s the CTRL+ALT with the WINDOWS key, so CTRL+ALT+WINDOWS. Hold all three down, and I can use Page Up and Page Down to make it go faster or slower. And it saves that, so it writes it to the profile. So it’ll just adjust it. So after you put Daniel in, use that keystroke to speed him up a little bit, if you want him to go a little faster. And that’s all there is to it. It’s a great feature.
There are a couple of more buttons in the dialog box about removing a particular voice. So if you’ve installed a few, and you want to get rid of one, you use the Remove a Voice dialog box to pick the one you want to uninstall. And there’s even a button there for removing all of your Vocalizer Expressive voices. If you’ve got them all installed, and you wanted to get rid of all of them all at once, you can do it right from this dialog. You never have to go to the Add/Remove Programs in Control Panel, which is very time-consuming to uninstall one at a time. This cleans them all up, if you want to.
JOHN: I really like this JAWS feature. Let’s take a look at it. I’m using JAWS 2019 with Eloquence, and we’re going to bring up the JAWS window.
JAWS VOICE: JAWS Context Menu. Option Submenu.
JOHN: And we’ll press ENTER.
JAWS VOICE: Basics... Voices Submenu. Voice Adjustment... Select a Voice Profile... Add/Remove Voices...
JOHN: Here’s a new one that Eric was talking about. We’ll press ENTER.
JAWS VOICE: Leaving Menus. Add/Remove Vocalizer Expressive Voices. Select a Language Combo Box. English.
JOHN: So this is the combo box of languages. I don’t know how many are in there. JAWS doesn’t tell me. But I would imagine most of the languages spoken in the world are in there, or at least a good deal of them. Mine is set to English because I speak English, so I’m not going to touch that one right now. But you can always open it up, and UP and DOWNARROW, and find different languages. Whatever you do, don’t press ENTER unless you understand the language. Otherwise you will have some problems getting back to your native language, whatever that turns out to be. Let’s TAB through the rest of the controls here and see what we have.
JAWS VOICE: Premium Voices Multi-Select List Box. Not selected, Alison, English, United States, 1 of 20.
JOHN: So this is a list, then, of all of the voices that are currently available. And if we open up the box, as I’m going to do right now, and then DOWNARROW.
JAWS VOICE: Not selected, Ava, English, United States. Already installed, 3 of 20.
JOHN: We’ll DOWNARROW.
JAWS VOICE: Not selected, Daniel, English, British. Already installed.
JOHN: So again, it said “already installed.” It remembers the ones that you have installed. If we want to hear Daniel...
JAWS VOICE: Play Sample button.
JOHN: We just TAB once, and it says “Play Sample button.”
JAWS VOICE: My name is Daniel, and I am a U.K. English voice, available for use with Freedom Scientific products such as JAWS.
JOHN: Let’s TAB again.
JAWS VOICE: Install Selected Voices button.
JOHN: And you can select as many as you want to to be installed, as Eric had mentioned earlier. Just again, remember, they’re going to take a while because some of these are large files.
JAWS VOICE: Additional Options. Remove a Voice... button.
JOHN: Okay. And that will allow you to remove voices from this list.
JAWS VOICE: Remove All Voices button.
JOHN: And you could do that if you wanted to. If you wanted to start over for some reason.
JAWS VOICE: Close button.
JOHN: And there’s the Close button. We’re sitting on a list box again of the voices that have been installed. I’m going to TAB.
JAWS VOICE: Play Sample button. Install Selected Voices button. Additional Options. Remove a Voice... button.
JOHN: So we’re on Remove a Voice, just one voice. So we’re going to press ENTER.
JAWS VOICE: Remove a Voice. Installed Voices Multi-Select List Box. Not selected, Ava, English, United States. One of three.
JOHN: So we’ll DOWNARROW.
JAWS VOICE: Not selected, Daniel, English, British. Not selected, Nathan, English, United States.
JOHN: Let’s remove Daniel.
JAWS VOICE: Not selected, Daniel, English, British.
JOHN: And then we’ll put him back in here again. So I need – it says unselected at the moment. So I need to hit the SPACEBAR.
JAWS VOICE: Daniel, English, British.
JOHN: So is he selected? Let’s do a Say Line and find out.
JAWS VOICE: Daniel, English, British, 2 of 3.
JOHN: Think he is, so we’ll TAB.
JAWS VOICE: Move Selected Voices button. Uninstall complete. Your voices have been successfully removed. You must restart JAWS in order for these changes to take effect. Okay button.
JOHN: So it didn’t take very long to remove it. It may take a lot longer to put it back onto the computer. So we’ll do that now to give you an idea of what that sounds like. First I’m going to press ENTER to get out of this dialog.
JAWS VOICE: Remove a Voice. Remove Selected Voices button.
JOHN: I’m just going to unload JAWS and bring it back. And of course with 2019 I hit INSERT+F4, and I have mine set so that it doesn’t prompt me every time.
JAWS VOICE: Unloading JAWS.
JOHN: And I also have CTRL+ALT+J set to bring back JAWS right away. So I’ve pressed that, and it should come up any second now.
JAWS VOICE: JAWS Professional.
JOHN: We are back on the desktop, so we’ll do INSERT+J to open up the JAWS window.
JAWS VOICE: JAWS Context Menu. Options Basics....
JOHN: I press ENTER, and we’ll DOWNARROW.
JAWS VOICE: Voices Submenu.
JOHN: Press ENTER again.
JAWS VOICE: Voice Adjustment....
JOHN: DOWNARROW again.
JAWS VOICE: Select a Voice Profile. Add/Remove Voices.
JOHN: Then we go ENTER.
JAWS VOICE: Folder View. List View. Eudora. 31 of 66. Add/Remove Vocalizer Expressive Voices. Select a Language Combo Box. English.
JOHN: And TAB one time.
JAWS VOICE: Premium Voices Multi-Select List Box. Not selected, Alison, English, United States, 1 of 20. Not selected Ava. Not selected Daniel, English.
JOHN: Okay. I hit the SPACEBAR, so I’m going to TAB.
JAWS VOICE: Play Sample button. Install Selected Voices button. Installing Voices cancel button.
JOHN: So it should also give us the little progress parameters as we move along. Now, you can TAB around in this dialog box to get specifics.
JAWS VOICE: 10%.
JOHN: Now that I’m on the percentage, it’s ogoing to announce it every time. But if I SHIFT+TAB back once...
JAWS VOICE: Downloading Daniel.
JOHN: ...it’ll remind you of who you’re downloading.
JAWS VOICE: Progress bar 10%.
JOHN: I just tabbed.
JAWS VOICE: Cancel button. Downloading Daniel.
JOHN: So I’m going to wait till we get to 99%, and then we’ll come back and let you hear the installation because you don’t have to do anything when it finishes downloading. You just let it continue, and it’ll automatically start installing the voice.
JAWS VOICE: 100%. Installing Daniel. Progress bar 100%. Installation complete. Your voices have been successfully installed. You must restart JAWS in order for these changes to take effect. Finish button.
JOHN: So that’s how you go about installing and deleting these Vocalizer voices, right here from the JAWS menu. You don’t have to go to the website anymore to do it. It makes it very convenient and very easy.
Well, now that we’ve finished adding and removing voices, let’s go to a JAWS feature that’s been around for quite a while and find Daniel, and then bring him about with just a very simple keystroke. And we’ll make that choice permanent with regard to rate of speed. So in order to do that, we do the JAWSKEY+CTRL+S. We’ll do them all at the same time.
JAWS VOICE: Dialog default. Combo Box. Eloquence, 1 of 9.
JOHN: So we have nine voices in here right now, and those are including the SAPI voices and the Mobile Microsoft voices and of course the Vocalizer Expressive voices. And what I’m going to do is choose Daniel. Now, I could UP and DOWNARROW if I wanted to. Or I could use first-letter navigation.
JAWS VOICE: Daniel Vocalizer Expressive Premium, 9 of 9.
JOHN: By the way, you can do the very same thing when you’re adding and removing voices. Remember, earlier we found that list box of 20 different voices that were available. You can use first-letter navigation there, too, if you know which one you want. So we’re going to choose Daniel and press ENTER, and Daniel should start talking.
DANIEL VOICE: Sound Forge Pro 11.0.
JOHN: Now we’ve got Daniel speaking. And that’s how easy it is just to switch voices on the fly. And with the keystroke of CTRL+WINDOWS+ALT+PAGEUP or CTRL+WINDOWS+ALT+PAGEDOWN, you can change the speech rate and make it permanent. With the other keystroke, which I think left the WINDOWS KEY out, you would ALT+TAB away, and it would go right back to whatever had been saved in your file.
LARRY: Well, John, let’s demonstrate this. Let’s do an ALT+CTRL+WINDOWS+PAGEUP, and Daniel will say...
DANIEL VOICE: Faster, faster, faster, faster.
LARRY: And then we do ALT+CTRL+WINDOWS+PAGEDOWN.
DANIEL VOICE: Slower, slower, slower, slower, slower.
JOHN: Now I’m in the Sound Forge window that I’m using to record the podcast. If I ALT+TAB, it should bring me to another application, but the speech rate should be the same, just as slow as it was a moment ago. So let’s ALT+TAB and find out.
DANIEL VOICE: Star, star, star, FS. Eudora dash left bracket. C:\users, D:\documents. Sound Forge.
JOHN: Okay, so it is, good. Thank you, Daniel. The check is in the mail. And that’s how easy it is to not only add and remove voices, but also to change them on the fly and make those changes permanent.
LARRY: Well, now that we’ve talked about the voice profiles, Eric, let’s talk a little bit more about the sounds that we’ve begun to hear in Microsoft Word and in Office 365.
ERIC: Yeah, I’m glad you’re noticing those sounds, and I know others are, as well. Let’s talk about what they are and the reasons for them. So in Microsoft Word, let’s specifically talk about Word for a second, in Office 365 in particular. When you’re typing, if you’ve made a spelling mistake as you’re going along, a small little red squiggly line appears under that word, and that’s an indicator for a sighted person that the word that they’ve just typed after they hit the SPACEBAR, Word determined it was misspelled. And so it’s useful for someone who’s sighted to be able to quickly look at their document, see any misspelled words, and go and adjust them right then on the fly.
So the idea with our sound is that, if you hit the SPACEBAR, and that line appears under a word as you’re typing, you’ll hear a little sound in the background, just to kind of give you a clue that, okay, there’s a misspelled word just appeared on my document. And if you choose to, you can move back a word at a time. And when you land on the word that has the red squiggly underline, JAWS will announce to you that it’s a misspelled word. From there, you can drill into the word, make the correction. And once you’ve made the correction, and the red squiggly line vanishes, JAWS will actually play a different sound, and you’ll know that you’ve made that correction. So this sound, these sounds are there to help you understand when the line’s appeared and when it’s disappeared.
LARRY: Eric, are there any other sounds in Office 365 that we should be aware of?
ERIC: The other sound that we hear is the Autocorrect feature in Microsoft Word. So if Autocorrect is turned on, what’s happening is Microsoft has determined that whatever word you wrote needed to be corrected somehow, and they think they’ll know how to correct it best, so they adjust the word. So what you’ve typed is not what is now on the document because they changed it on you. So it’s nice that you can know that they’ve made such a change. And that sound, that pop that you hear, indicates it. We’re all familiar with it on cell phones; right? We type a text message to somebody, and they get a different message than we intended to type. Happens to us all, all the time.
Well, Word can do the same thing. Word fixes thing on the fly. Now, sometimes it’s good, and sometimes it’s bad. But it’s nice to know it’s happened, and that’s what that pop is indicating to you. And if you move back to a word that has been autocorrected, JAWS, you’ll notice now, even tells you that it was autocorrected, and it points out that there’s a keystroke, ALT+SHIFT+F10. So you hold down the ALT+SHIFT key at the same time, press the function key F10, and it pops up a context menu that Word provides; but it’s a context menu to get to the autocorrect features. And that’s the only way I know of to get to it from a keyboard is to know that command and be on top of a word that’s been autocorrected. So JAWS is giving you, not only the information that you’re on the word, but also telling you the keystroke when you move to it so you can learn it.
LARRY: Eric, you mentioned ALT+SHIFT+F10 in Microsoft Word. I would assume maybe that you could also use that keystroke in Outlook 365?
ERIC: Now, if you’re in Outlook using Word as your editor, which is what Microsoft does in Outlook 365, that keystroke is not available. Microsoft will fix that eventually. But for now there’s no way to get to that context menu using a keyboard that I’m aware of. So an example of an autocorrection that will happen, if you start to type a sentence, and the first word you type you forgot the capital letter on it, it’ll get the adjustment automatically. Microsoft will fix the word. You’ll hear the pop, and you’ll know what it’s done. If you move back to it, you’ll get the indicator, as well.
But there are other words that get autocorrected, and I can’t think of a good example of one right now. But sometimes you always want it to stop correcting that, and so being able to get access to that list, that context list allows you to go in and turn it off for that particular word in the future, so you can kind of fix that problem if it’s happening all the time.
So anyways, that’s a little bit about the sounds. We’re just trying to make sure that our users get some of those same cues that a sighted user is getting when they’re using the application. And of course you can go in through the JAWS settings to the Quick Start Menu, INSERT+V through the Quick Settings. And you can go in there and adjust and turn those things off. Search for the words “spelling” and “autocorrect,” and you’ll find those things in Quick Settings.
LARRY: All right. Let’s demonstrate a little bit in Word here to give you some idea of sounds and what’s happening here. We’re in Microsoft Word already. I’m going to type the sentence “This is a spellling mistake. This is a S P E L L L I N G space” – oops – “MISTAKE m I s t a k e.” There’s some – what did I do? Gee. Spelling is the culprit, I’ll bet you. So if I do CTRL+LEFTARROW...
JAWS VOICE: Mistake, misspelled “spelling.”
LARRY: Ah. It tells you. Isn’t that nice? It tells you the word “spelling” is misspelled. Gee, what did I do?
JAWS VOICE: Space, misspelled S...
LARRY: Okay, so S-P-E...
JAWS VOICE: P E L L L L I...
LARRY: Okay. So I put a few extra L’s in there. So let’s back up and get rid of those. Oh, now it’s correct. That little ping sound is a confirmation that the word is spelled correctly. I hate it when I do something, and there’s not always a confirmation. Did I do it right or not? And in this case JAWS tells you, yes, spelling is now the way it should be with two L’s, idiot. Of course, it only says “idiot” to me, nobody else. That’s okay. I’ve gotten used to it.
But that’s how it works. It’s as simple as that. I love the fact that it tells you you’ve misspelled a word, and then you can go back and look at it. And when you’ve taken out the letters that are necessary, it gives you the confirmation, the little ping sound. And that’s really what that’s about with regard to sounds in Microsoft Word.
And before we close for this month, let’s again tell you how you can reach the podcast. You can do it in two ways. You can write us an email, and several of you have, and that’s firstname.lastname@example.org. Or you can call our listener line, area code (727) 803-8000, extension 1010. And our webinars, coming up monthly, and we’ve just had one in January, the next one coming up on February 7, “Getting to Know JAWS.” So join us there at that time. You need to register first. Go to www.freedomscientific.com/training. Look for the Webinar link and register, and you’ll get an email coming back to you, verifying that you have registered, and then join us at 12:00 Eastern, 9:00 Pacific, on February 7th for “Getting to Know JAWS,” the next webinar in the series.
Well, that’ll do it for this time. Larry and John Gassman, thanking you so very much for all your kind comments, et cetera, through email and/or through the listener line. And join us next time for another FSCast.